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MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

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Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#191

Post by IceWreck »

aitchnyu wrote: post #136
IceWreck wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft apps exist on Android and they're not forced to open links in Chrome on Android. If the user chooses, they can open on Microsoft Edge on Android. The user can set their own browser preference - and Google doesn't force them. Apple doesn't allow other browser engines but it's on them. None of these bug tech corps are in the right here, but MS is being more anti-competitive than most.

Umm, MS Teams on Adroid forced me to install Edge to open links. Even the copy action pushes "haha, we wont give away this link you moron" (in corp speak) to the clipboard.

Thats on Microsoft not Google

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#192

Post by Kwpolska »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #114
croes wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not VS Codium?

Not answering for the GP: There are so many people out there, who should know better, or even do know better. Yet, for whatever reason install VS Code instead of VS Codium. Even when you inform people about the existence of VS Codium, they still don't move and keep using VS Code. It is like they do not even care at all. That this is even allowed to happen in organizations is already an oversight. It should not even b…

> there is telemetry

VSCode telemetry can be fully disabled.

> and non-reproducible builds

Who cares? Most users don’t need a reproducible build of software they want to use, they need working software.

> and whatever other mistreatment of them as useds.

Calling people “useds” isn’t going to help your case.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#193

Post by worrycue »

dubcanada wrote: post #61
isanjay wrote: post #52

If shit hits the fan and Microsoft gets sued for Anti Competitive behaviour (again) I suspect their main defence would be: Google doesn't even let users uninstall their apps and apple doesn't even let users install other browser.

By uninstall their apps I assume you mean play service? In which case you can you just need root. Same as you can’t uninstall core Microsoft services. Apple not allowing other browsers is a bit much…

> Apple not allowing other browsers is a bit much…

Apple is paranoid about being dependent on other companies. If Chrome becomes a "must have" Google will have leverage over them by threatening to pull Chrome from the iPhone.

They have been burned badly before: https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=MacBasic.txt

Instead of letting that happen, they use the iPhone's market share to push an alternative they control and pressure developers to support it (with its market share).

Google is already using such tactics against Android phone makers. They keep them in line by threatening to not license them their services.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#194

Post by e12e »

Forge36 wrote: post #122
e12e wrote: post #120

This is an expected normalization of html email and the mostly-client-side-apps; Outlook (the desktop app) already renders the html email in a MS rendering engine (Edge? I don't know). If the email has a button (or a link) - i think it makes sense that the click event shows up "in" the mail client. I hate html email - but the last 20 years have been all about siloing hypertext apps in email systems - proprietary prot…

Outlook renders the HTML in word. (It's a custom rendering engine)

I swear you can't make this shit up (i actually knew that, but the trauma made me forget).

Thanks for pointing it out.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#195

Post by worrycue »

capableweb wrote: post #185
worrycue wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just like any other public company Except way more mercenary. Companies compete like boxers in a ring. You win some, you lose some. MS is the boxer who would hit below the belt if no one is looking and will try to main/kill you if they can. https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=MacBasic.txt

> maximizing shareholder profits, just like any other public company Show me one of these big technology companies that doesn't act to benefit their shareholders? Microsoft is Google is Apple is Amazon. They're all the same internally. The only difference is their optics when you're looking at them as an outsider. But really, they all work toward the same goal, increasing their stock price.

You replying to the right person?

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#196

Post by Avamander »

malermeister wrote: post #182
dahauns wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. Sorry, but Google really isn't a saint regarding degraded experience. The shenanigans around UX for example using Google services in Firefox have a long, well documented tradition. They just aren't as overt and clumsy with it as MS.

I use a Firefox addon that spoofs the user agent for Google-owned sites so it delivers the Chrome version of things. Works without any issues and it's a much nicer product experience.

I'm not trying to excuse Google, but feature detection is really hard and browsers sometimes suck with their APIs.

I just recently started using a modified version of the "h265ify" add-on that just advertises support of a few extra codecs (HEVC and surprisingly MPEG-2) to websites. With both Edge and Chrome, I do that because I know the formats work but the API doesn't indicate they do.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#197

Post by masklinn »

capableweb wrote: post #177
masklinn wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not allowing alternative browsers on their most successful platform: iOS The huge difference is that this is the blanket application of a rule which has reasonable justifications. You can certainly criticise Apple for being a control-freak company, but that's not exactly a new trait. And it's not Apple leveraging one monopoly (they don't have) into trying to take over an other domain as a new entrant. iOS started f…

> And it's not Apple leveraging one monopoly (they don't have) into trying to take over an other domain as a new entrant. iOS started from the position of being completely locked down. Apple is absolutely trying to leverage their OS in order to drive usage in other markets. One big example of this is Apple Maps, which is being used as a default on iOS no matter if you like it or not. Both "Contacts" and "Find My" use…

> The manufacturer who almost never use standard connectors

Except for all the times they do?

> were gonna start using standard connectors suddenly, no because regulation forced them to, but because that was in their timeline anyways...

Yes? Or are you saying regulations forced them to use USB-C on macbooks, to the exception of every other port including the beloved but non-standard magsafe?

Or that regulations forced them to add type C to the ipad pro in 2018? The ipad in 2020? The ipad mini in 2021? The ipad air in 2022?

Hell, back in 1998 they released the iMac with essentially only USB support. Was that also regulations forcing them?

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#198

Post by e12e »

reaperducer wrote: post #137
e12e wrote: post #120

This is an expected normalization of html email and the mostly-client-side-apps; Outlook (the desktop app) already renders the html email in a MS rendering engine (Edge? I don't know). If the email has a button (or a link) - i think it makes sense that the click event shows up "in" the mail client. I hate html email - but the last 20 years have been all about siloing hypertext apps in email systems - proprietary prot…

This is an expected normalization of html email I have two Macs running Microsoft Outlook. One is running a version several years behind the current one. The old machine can send e-mail as plain text. The one running the current Microsoft Outlook doesn't have that option, or a way to enable it that I've been able to find.

I recently changed to macOS, and macOS Outlook is a bit of a puzzle. On one hand an admission that the web app isn't good enough, on the other... It's not quite a proper port of the windows version?

Thankfully i write mostly code and documentation - so far i don't have to care that 2023 Outlook is worse than 2003 Pine.

On the other hand there's a shared calendar.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#199

Post by Avamander »

dismalpedigree wrote: post #112
dustedcodes wrote: post #6

I have no skin in the game, but even I am starting to think the obvious thing here: Apple and Google own the entire mobile OS market. They could literally destroy Microsoft if they started to hugely degrade the experience of Microsoft products on iOS and Android with dark patterns a la Microsoft. But they don't. So far they were competing by making their own products better. Microsoft needs to think hard how hostile…

Apple controls the browser on iOS with an iron fist. Even if you are using a different app, its still Safari under the hood. And even though they control the rendering, they still open all links from Apple apps in Safari. Oh and music. I use an alternative to Apple music because I choose to. That doesn’t stop Apple music from being the auto play choice even when I don’t use Apple Music. If Apple’s products are so muc…

Somehow they manage to control it with an iron fist but still allow apps to intercept links, opening them in their nasty embedded version with injected JS.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#200

Post by robocat »

newjersey wrote: post #10
nightpaws wrote: post #2

Starting to think MSFT have completely forgotten the days of the browser choice button. Wonder when we'll see that again...

I just saw some clickbait article this week that said by some metric I don't remember, desktop safari moved to number two (presumably number one is Google Chrome) beating Microsoft Edge. I remember how reaction was relatively swift with Apple and book publishers' illegal collusion even though Apple was not a major player yet, or maybe I am just wrong on this which is possible, I didn't follow the news closely. In any…

https://www.macrumors.com/2023/05/02/safari-overtakes-edge-p...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35786080

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