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MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

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Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#171
Interesting timing.

2 days ago a place I'm at switched us from Google mail + calendar + meet to Microsoft outlook + calendar + teams.

I almost can't believe at how good Google's suite of tools are compared to Microsoft. I never used any of MS' office tools until a few days ago.

Outlook's web app doesn't even let you click into an email to mark it as read. You have to explicitly click the mark as read button. It also doesn't intuitively support filters with emails that have + in their name (each email ends up being unique instead of Google doing the more expected thing of letting the filter match all + variants). It also doesn't update its title bar with a count of emails in your inbox. That's things I discovered after using it for about 10 minutes.

Microsoft's calendar is designed so poorly, there's so many quality of life things that aren't there vs Google. There's too many to list but the biggest one is not being able to see the calendar details of team mates when inviting them to an event. All you see is a blocked out amount of time, you can't see their exact schedules even if they shared their calendar with you. This removes a huge human element to scheduling meetings because often times I'll avoid scheduling meetings when folks are just getting out of a long meeting, or I'll buffer it by 15-30 minutes depending on who is doing what beforehand.

I'm not not looking forward to the day when we'll need to use all of MS' tools to replace Google docs + spreadsheet and Slack.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#172
post #165

Wasn't MS sued by the EU some time ago for doing something similar. Have they not learned?

The knowledge gained from cases like that is never "We'll never do anything like it again" but "We pushed too hard, next time we need to push, but not as much".

They're trying to find the limit for what they can do, so they can be right next to the limit. If they get fined, they try to correct by either finding a different way of doing the same thing, or doing something just enough to not get fined.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#173
post #57

I'm an IT Admin with 15+ sites across my country. I'm not angry about this change. Myself and most of the people I've networked with either have or are transitioning away from other browsers, towards Edge. As a browser, it's fine. It has good PDF viewing/editing features, performant and works well with organisational SSO.

Are you serious? The best /useful things for you are PDFs and SSO? Both of these features are not what makes a web browser super duper. PDF viewing is available in all major browsers. SSO works in all web browsers - unless you’re using Windows XP as your enterprise cloud server running java and oracle and your asp.net web app requires a microsoft browser running in internet explorer legacy mode.

I stated two things I like about it over it's competitors, I didn't brand them as the best or most important features on offer.

I specifically stated PDF editing, not just viewing PDF files.

SSO works better on Edge in a work environment, mainly as it connects to the Windows profile. This means that I do not need to make changes to additional browsers or have end users struggling to sign in to various applications. Specifically with Edge, I can simply provide each user profile a folder with shortcuts to the likes of email quarantine, support, Outlook etcetera and they will either see their account listed or only need to enter their email address.

Coupled with appropriate training, this has cut down on users signing into Microsoft login pages that have been designed to look like the legitimate organisation using logo's and other branding. When in doubt, the users can visit the shortcut provided to them.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#174
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not VS Codium?

Not answering for the GP: There are so many people out there, who should know better, or even do know better. Yet, for whatever reason install VS Code instead of VS Codium. Even when you inform people about the existence of VS Codium, they still don't move and keep using VS Code. It is like they do not even care at all. That this is even allowed to happen in organizations is already an oversight. It should not even b…

Can you use all extensions available for vs code in vs codium? I thought the best ones, provided by ms, were vs code only.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#175
post #68
post #57

I'm an IT Admin with 15+ sites across my country. I'm not angry about this change. Myself and most of the people I've networked with either have or are transitioning away from other browsers, towards Edge. As a browser, it's fine. It has good PDF viewing/editing features, performant and works well with organisational SSO.

Does that mean you ban users from using browsers that are not Edge?

No.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always saw it as Microsoft is clearly two (or more) companies now. Some of those companies are very much what Microsoft was always like. Some others aren't at all like microsoft in anything but name.

That might be a useful point of view if you happen to work at GitHub and you don't really want to wake up to the fact that you actually work for Microsoft now. But for anyone else, everything Microsoft owns is Microsoft, and they'll use the products and properties they owned to further the goal of Microsoft, which is maximizing shareholder profits, just like any other public company.

> just like any other public company

Except way more mercenary.

Companies compete like boxers in a ring. You win some, you lose some. MS is the boxer who would hit below the belt if no one is looking and will try to main/kill you if they can.

https://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=MacBasic.txt

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only instance of Apple doing that I’m aware of is Not allowing alternative browsers on their most successful platform: iOS also: - EU forced Apple to use USB-C like everybody else - EU is forcing Apple to allow side loading of apps Apple is one of the worst offenders ever when it's about vendor lock in

> Not allowing alternative browsers on their most successful platform: iOS The huge difference is that this is the blanket application of a rule which has reasonable justifications. You can certainly criticise Apple for being a control-freak company, but that's not exactly a new trait. And it's not Apple leveraging one monopoly (they don't have) into trying to take over an other domain as a new entrant. iOS started f…

> And it's not Apple leveraging one monopoly (they don't have) into trying to take over an other domain as a new entrant. iOS started from the position of being completely locked down.

Apple is absolutely trying to leverage their OS in order to drive usage in other markets. One big example of this is Apple Maps, which is being used as a default on iOS no matter if you like it or not. Both "Contacts" and "Find My" uses Apple Maps as the only option for starting navigating to another address, and if the application is not installed, but Google Maps or any other app, they still ask you to install Apple Maps instead of doing what everyone else in the ecosystem is doing, which is to ask which navigation app to use.

> Which was almost certainly on Apple's timeline anyway, though we'll never know for sure.

Yes, absolutely. The manufacturer who almost never use standard connectors were gonna start using standard connectors suddenly, no because regulation forced them to, but because that was in their timeline anyways...

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#178
So anyone still thinking MS is now all good and it's not an issue that it own github + vscode + a endless list of other things relevant for especially smaller development companies?

Microsoft will do whats best for them.

Temporary this includes embrace open source to some degree and being reasonable nice to Linux. For example WSL can help with trying out Linux and help cross platform devs on Windows to develop for Linux which can help with a to Linux migration. But it removes the main reasons why a lot of students, scientists and server devs had to use it. So for now it's net-good for them, which can be good for Linux, too.

But what will happen if it again is more profitable for MS to not act nice?

How long will it then take to WSL to have features in a way which make it likely software only works on WSL Linux and maybe Azur servers but won't be available on normal distros.

How long until GitHub will have some small but very usefull features which happen to only be available in some Windows GitHub client pushing companies to require Windows first desktop systems?

How long until they will influence legislation around computer security in a way which have effects like being practical impossible for normal desktop Linux clients or require some proprietary Linux core component due to a combination of legislation and patents, which distributions for Azur or Google cloud surely will have for free, but the competition?

Honestly I hope so long that you could say never.

But I believe open source and free desktops are as much threatened by MS today as many years ago when people aware about it often treated MS as a evil company for good reasons. But today it's in a way more roundabout, very subtle very hard to pin down way. This gives them the chance to succeed where they failed before, but us the chance to both profit from them and while preventing them from succeeding. Optimally leading to some form of stalemate where both are profiting from each other.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#179
post #108

IT admins have only themselves to blame for choosing Teams in the first place. Yes, it is included in O365 and it makes it a no-brainer as far as additional costs and things go. But then there's the risk that Microsoft leverage their captive and lazy market to foist other undesirable things on users... like this. And crappy news / adverts in Windows 11's 'start menu' replacement. Ready to get voted down on this, but…

Most companies don’t have the resources and manpower to run their own chat and videocall service. A previous employer of mine did (using some open-source tools) and it was painful to use due to the tools’ wonky UX and networking glitches.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft apps exist on Android and they're not forced to open links in Chrome on Android. If the user chooses, they can open on Microsoft Edge on Android. The user can set their own browser preference - and Google doesn't force them. Apple doesn't allow other browser engines but it's on them. None of these bug tech corps are in the right here, but MS is being more anti-competitive than most.

I know I'm comparing a turd sandwich to a puke pancake here, but in what way is "Apple doesn't allow other browser engines" less anti-competitive than what MS is doing?

For Apple, the wall around the garden is so high that you don't realize there is an outside in the first place. So no one notices it.
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