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PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

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Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#551

Post by JohnFen »

George83728 wrote: post #529
JohnFen wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's not all the law does. It also strips anonymity and, therefore, privacy.

My beard is gray but the government requires me to show a valid state ID when buying booze, cigs and porno mags at the gas station. If that's not a violation of the Constitution, why should carding people on porno websites be different?

I never said there was a constitutional issue (I don't think that there is).

The difference between showing ID to a clerk and this sort of thing is recordkeeping. A clerk is only checking the DOB on the ID, not keeping a record of your identity[1]. Online age checks keep records.

If there were some way of doing an age check without having your identity attached to it or having to expose yourself to some commercial third party, I wouldn't have an issue. That's a tough nut, though.

[1] I'm aware that certain businesses do keep a scan of your ID, but they're the exception and not the rule.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#552

Post by rgavuliak »

brightball wrote: post #537
wakannai wrote: post #328

Multiple issues with this. It starts off with arbitrary definitions of what pornography is ( https://le.utah.gov/~2023/bills/static/SB0287.html ): "nipple of the female breast" You can suck on it when you are a baby, but god forbid you ever take a look at it again before you are married. What's wrong with these people? Even public nudity laws differ from city to city (e.g. in California), so clearly, people aren't al…

There’s such a strange dichotomy in these conversations. 1. Porn shouldn’t be available to kids and it’s on the vendors legally to ensure that. 2. Porn should be unrestricted, it’s up to parents to do something about it. What I can’t understand is if the people in camp 2 are so unashamed of the porn advocacy then why is age verification such a big deal? If it’s not a big deal then verifying your age shouldn’t phase y…

Because when buying alcohol, you can for the most part (outside of online purchases, but even then the courier can check an ID upon delivery hypothetially) verify it fairly easily. With online porn, the scale and complications doing it put a much bigger burden on the providers.

Additionally porn has a much bigger stigma than alcohol, so keeping record of what you watch, especially if you're into something more niche connected to your name can be used to discredit political opponents or even single out certain group due to abuse of power. A good example would be exposing a conservative politician that watches gay porn. Not that would necessarily be a bad thing, but there is no equivalent to this with alcohol - oh you drink tequilla, but you're whole ideology is based on drinking whiskey...

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#553

Post by AdamJacobMuller »

djha-skin wrote: post #400
taylodl wrote: post #190

An identity provider can make verified age one of the claims on an OAuth token. It removes anonymity, but at least you don't have to provide your personal details to everybody on the internet demanding age verification. You provide those details to your trusted identity provider, they provide the claim of your age to the website. With that in place we can easily make beer, liquor, marijuana and tobacco sales on the i…

A much better solution than was suggested by PornHub: > PornHub said that a better solution is to identify users by their device. Fingerprinting is not and should not be the sanctioned way of identifying people. On the engineering side, it is a horrible hack. On the ethical side, it is much worse to ( attempt to) fingerprint since it tells PornHub waaay more than just age.

Yeah I really did not understand what they were suggesting with "device verification" but it seemed both ineffective and likely to provide them with far more data than needed.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#554

Post by least »

bumby wrote: post #372
hhjinks wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's perfectly fine to assume that pornography might warp a child's view of sex and intimacy. The solution shouldn't be to force people to identify themselves, though. Parents have all the tools they need to shield their children from pornhub, if they so wish.

I know HN tends toward the libertarian slant, but this same perspective can be applied to all kinds of ills that are regulated, from smoking to driving. This falls into the common refrain about "what do we do with kids who don't have responsible parents?" I'm not sure just letting the chips fall where they may when it comes to kids who got a shit roll of the dice when it comes to parents is a great societal solution.

I'd say that I don't think children should be limited in opportunity due to the circumstances of their upbringing, but with those considerations in mind, protecting them from finding a way to access pornography is pretty low on that list of priorities, especially given that legislation like this will be wholly ineffective at accomplishing its purported goal and will needlessly burden the people who are legally trying to access pornography.

It's just not possible to address this issue without there being an intersection of how adults also access these adult things. A lot of other access controls in society are more reasonable than any proposal that people have come up with in this thread to restrict online pornography access to minors. This is why we place the burden on parents.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#555

Post by throwaway987q »

edgyquant wrote: post #485
wakannai wrote: post #328

Multiple issues with this. It starts off with arbitrary definitions of what pornography is ( https://le.utah.gov/~2023/bills/static/SB0287.html ): "nipple of the female breast" You can suck on it when you are a baby, but god forbid you ever take a look at it again before you are married. What's wrong with these people? Even public nudity laws differ from city to city (e.g. in California), so clearly, people aren't al…

Way to regurgitate a tired argument. Kids are addicted to porn before they’re old enough to drive these days and it’s messes them up for life (see: the incel movement.) Something has to be done about corporations that profit off of showing literal children hardcore porn. “Talking to your kids” doesn’t work when multinational corporations are incentivized to addict them for ad revenue.

"Incel movement" For the love of god. It is like calling poor people "powerty movement". Lost your arm? How dare you to belong to "one arm movement"? Don't you know there was was one arm rober with vad political views?

No one chooses their life circumstances. Too poor ("just learn to code bruh!" (did)) and not good looking enough ("just work out bruh!" (tried did not grow my missing body part back)) to attract woman for one night stand in country with banned sex work? Well you must belong to some radical political party or be poisoned by porn!

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#556

Post by steveklabnik »

scarface74 wrote: post #506
cpursley wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When's the last time the US publicly executed a homosexual person or adulterer, with or without trial?

Not execute. But there were laws against “sodomy” - ie consensual non heterosexual sex between adults in some southern states as late as the 80s and people went to jail.

> there were

There still are! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_Stat...

> As of March 2023, 14 states either have not yet formally repealed their laws against sexual activity among consenting adults or have not revised them to accurately reflect their true scope as a result of Lawrence v. Texas.

While Lawrence v Texas does limit these laws, there's a concerted effort to repeal it, and if that happens, these laws will go back into effect.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#557

Post by ta988 »

13of40 wrote: post #355
whats_a_quasar wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happens to me at self-checkout at Safeway. I guess I can get somebody to come and check my ID, but seems unnecessary.

Not sure if it's everywhere yet, but where I live, QFC and Fred Meyer have started scanning IDs for every alcohol purchase, which is a bit disturbing because that block of data on the back of your ID has a lot more than your birthday on it. I have a passport card that doesn't scan but is still valid ID, but I wonder if there's any legal issue with printing your own barcode that says "mind your own business" or someth…

Nobody will check. As long as their API replies {valid: true}

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#558

Post by AdamJacobMuller »

theptip wrote: post #333
taylodl wrote: post #190

An identity provider can make verified age one of the claims on an OAuth token. It removes anonymity, but at least you don't have to provide your personal details to everybody on the internet demanding age verification. You provide those details to your trusted identity provider, they provide the claim of your age to the website. With that in place we can easily make beer, liquor, marijuana and tobacco sales on the i…

+1 for teaching lawmakers how to achieve their goals at the protocol layer. Imagine how much better the web would be if cookie consent was a browser protocol on top of HTTP headers. This is the Obviously Correct solution, they just needed to work with browser vendors to make it happen. I’d rather you have websites support a generic cryptographically-secure claim schema for ages (implementable in any signed token the…

They would never do this, because, cookie consent only "works" by making it much harder to opt out than to just "accept all"

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#559

Post by LegitShady »

wakannai wrote: post #328

Multiple issues with this. It starts off with arbitrary definitions of what pornography is ( https://le.utah.gov/~2023/bills/static/SB0287.html ): "nipple of the female breast" You can suck on it when you are a baby, but god forbid you ever take a look at it again before you are married. What's wrong with these people? Even public nudity laws differ from city to city (e.g. in California), so clearly, people aren't al…

Canada's similar bill just passed senate reading on the 18th and needs to go to the house. It just says "sexually explicit material" and I'm having trouble finding an exact definition because its changed a bunch and I can't find the current definition.

https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/en/bill/44-1/s-210

UK

https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3137

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-65388255

I'm not sure where else these bills are being passed but it seems more or less in concert you will have to use a government approved age verification system to access porn, which may kill it off as I don't think people want to give the government information on what porn they watch.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#560

Post by haldujai »

bragr wrote: post #454
cpursley wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When's the last time the US publicly executed a homosexual person or adulterer, with or without trial?

If you include lynchings (and I am), very recently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_violence_against_LG...

Mob violence and hate crimes =/= state sanctioned violence.

Readers should note that all of the cited examples here are considered criminal and illegal in the United States.

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