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Vacations in the Soviet Union

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381–390 of 422 posts

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the industries that moved to other countries that are willing to provide goods for less did not survive.

Moved from where to where and which industries exactly? Do you think this happened in the entire world? I do not see Germany as de-industrialized country, for example.

Not in the entire world. I wasn't suggesting work moves to other worlds.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#382
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there were classes within soviet society Karl Marx's definition of communism was literally "a classless society"

That’s why soviet union had communism written on the facade and caste system inside. Party members had every luxury westerners had. And stupid dissidents silently disappeared to some far far away places behind Arctic circle.

I wouldn't say they had everything, but they surely had more. It's basically like in 1984. If nobody has chocolate and you have a little, you already feel richer.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My grandparents and my father grew up in the Soviet Union. I always find it fascinating hearing about my grandparent's childhood and what it was like to grow up there. One anecdote for not all rosy: My father is permanently traumatized because he had to get his tonsils removed when he was young and they didn't give him any anesthetics.

I got my (pharyngeal) tonsil removed without anaesthesia, in 2001 I think, as a kid, in the Czech Republic. It didn't hurt at all, but I still remember the loud crunch of the cutting and the whole setup — I sat on one doctor's lap, he grabbed me with his arms around my whole body AND my arms, so I couldn't move at all, and a second doctor did the cutting. It only took a few seconds, there was a lot of blood, but I go…

>It didn't hurt at all

Sounds like you got local anesthetics. You probably just didn't see the needle due to the angle.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As always, the gap between reality and propaganda is hilarious. Soviet workers and their colonized subjects spent their leisure time filling in for the massive failures of the state to provide anything resembling their promises. Some excerpts from my childhood: * Family outing to the fields to harvest carrots to pickle for the winter. This would be bartered with other families who went to harvest other veggies, so th…

These examples highlight the deficiencies of the Soviet economy, and it's evident that such failures caused considerable suffering among the population. Nevertheless, given more time to engage in activities akin to the first two examples, and separated from the threat of malnourishment, I believe I would experience greater happiness and a stronger connection to both my food and community. Through shared struggle, bar…

My parents and grandparents were forever traumautized by this experience leading them to leave objectively worse lives. Instead of actual leisure they'd spend their free time working on their car in the garage (because there are no car services), working in the garden (because food supplies aren't too diverse and you can't just go to the store to buy jam), or doing something else. They still feel weird about me ordering apartment cleaning once a month.

My grandma would continue working in her garden until she was extremely old because she was used to this, even though we could have bought any veggies or fruits to her. This likely affected her health in a negative way.

Living in a pre-industrial society isn't "good". It doesn't bring any advantages.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#385
post #3

The Soviet economy was somewhat surreal and it is difficult to explain it well to the Western audience. Including vacations, vacation tickets («путёвки»), summer camps, sanatoriums and the like. I still remember some parts though, so if you are interested in how it worked, I can answer your questions. Most definitely it wasn't all that rosy.

What are "vacation tickets"?

How you get a vacation in a capitalist country: you earn enough money and buy it. How you get a vacation in the USSR: most people just don't earn enough money to buy it on the "open market", so instead you apply for one. And the supply is very limited. So you need to know someone, pull some strings, provide something in return to the people who make decisions and maybe you get a subsidized tour. The people making these decisions have an additional income (not always monetary) through the power they yield.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moved from where to where and which industries exactly? Do you think this happened in the entire world? I do not see Germany as de-industrialized country, for example.

Not in the entire world. I wasn't suggesting work moves to other worlds.

That’s rather strange reading of my question.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

funny that you say that. i just noticed that twice today in a cafe. why frankfurt of all towns? munich makes sense for this to develop because of their biergarten culture with long benches and long tables

I used to live in Berlin and in my experience it wasn't really a thing there. For some reason it's just part of the restaurant culture in Frankfurt.

Not too uncommon in Bavaria and Austria, if the restaurant (or especially beergarden) is quite full - the waiters will even sometimes just place you there or give you the option to leave, or wait. I wouldn't say I've seen it if there are free tables though - but I've also been to regions where this would never ever happen, where your table is yours and yours alone.

I'd say talking to the people at your table is purely optional, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One explanation I've found pretty accurate: When the young start to become educated (late teens, early 20's) they face the realization that they will be entering the world on the bottom of the economic totem pole. There are two primary responses to this: 1. Realize that the real world is competitive and difficult and much self-improvement and hard work will be needed to thrive. These people put their heads down and g…

So, the types are: 1. Keep your head down, work hard and humbly, be a good little serf. 2. Say "screw this", realise there's a ton of wealth in the world and the leeches are taking it all, push for some changes that might actually make a difference in the world. Capitalism preys on the people who are susceptible to the first path.

Or you know you could work towards owning your own business. There are many pathways to get there, more than in any other country.

If you can’t beat ‘em join em

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Said the Americans. Until they got drafted into an illegal war in Vietnam or were given no other chance to earn a living than getting paid to kill in illegal wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. And let’s not even talking about all the coups the State Department and the CIA nurtured across countless countries

And here you are. With the possibility, and legal permission, to say just that. Good that you are.

Just because I pose no real threat to the system and by being allowed to ineffectively ranting I help to build the illusion of freedom. Now, try being Chelsea Manning and watch in awe the speed of the boot coming into your face the minute you really threaten the system.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#390
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US media distorted everything, reduced Chinese people to a monolith, downplayed or simply ignored all of the genuinely good things happening The media I follow generally acknowledge that Chinese adopting capitalism led to the greatest increase of standard of living in entire human history (in terms of how quick it was and how many people were affected). That's not downplaying.

That is a fairly simplified view which is very convenient for particular Western political interests but I don’t see it as a reflection of reality. The Chinese have “capitalism” with significant public investment in infrastructure and education. Bullet trains can take you everywhere on the cheap. Few foreign companies have been successful due in some part to protectionism (but also failed business models). Their mark…

The question is if the regulation and intervention is for the greater good, or is it because someone in the CCP took a bribe or saw an opportunity to steal the company from the rightful owner.
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