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Vacations in the Soviet Union

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Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#351

Post by tsukikage »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #333
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #103

There are a bunch of zoomers out there who un-ironically claim Communism is the ideal way of life. I've worked with some of them. I still can't fathom what's going on in their brains.

I know one of them. They make some good points against capitalism, but like Democracy is the worst form of government other than all the others, capitalism is the worst economic system other than all the others. But I simply cannot agree with a world that make everybody equal, no matter how much or how little work they do. People who work jobs that require extensive studying (ie, medical doctors) or jobs that almost…

Capitalism alone doesn't do that either though? Doctors, bankers and rich people's children get rewarded. Nurses, public restroom cleaners and teachers don't.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#352

Post by gpgsource »

62951413 wrote: post #350
gpgsource wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. 1,053,829 is from https://sovietinfo.tripod.com/GTY-Penal_System.pdf . Which has no source on the claimed number. 2. USSR had no extermination camps (unlike the NAZIs), GULAG was a prison system no different from the US Prison system today.

Tell me you have no ancestors from the USSR without telling me.

[flagged]

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#353

Post by ivan_gammel »

robertlagrant wrote: post #247
ivan_gammel wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the world has statutory minimum of vacation days that also applies to small businesses, and somehow those businesses manage to survive. They just include it in their business model and market finds new equilibrium.

All of the industries that moved to other countries that are willing to provide goods for less did not survive.

Moved from where to where and which industries exactly? Do you think this happened in the entire world? I do not see Germany as de-industrialized country, for example.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#354

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

catiopatio wrote: post #347
FooBarWidget wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you truly want to know what I think and why I think it, feel free to email me and take this discussion off HN. You can find my contact through my profile.

If you can’t make the case for China’s authoritarian capitalism here, I don’t see how picking it up over e-mail is going to help. It’s also counterproductive to take the debate offline, as further discussion would be for the benefit of anyone else that might read this thread. I’ll never agree that lifting people out of poverty requires authoritarian control over the populace.

It's not necessarily that it requires authoritarian rule, but rather that if you grew up in a rich country, you have a very different view on what is important.

Internet censorship generally ranks very low on your list of concerns if you're struggling to put food on the table. People in China have seen a complete transformation of their lives for the better, in just a few decades. They've gone from bicycles to electric cars, from not having reliable electricity to paying for everything with 5G-connected smartphones. From the point of view of how people live their everyday lives, things are better than ever.

Issues like censorship will become more important over time, but right now, they're still secondary. There are other issues at play as well, such as the legitimacy the Party still enjoys from the revolution and from its management of the economic boom of the last few decades, and people's fear of the sort of chaos that consumed China for much of its modern history.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#355

Post by onion2k »

catiopatio wrote: post #28
onion2k wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a very literal sense, most countries and especially the USA, do have that pool of labor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%E2%80%93industrial_comp...

In a very literal sense, this is an absolute false equivalency meant to obfuscate and excuse the truly horrific behavior of the Soviet state. I see the tankies are out in force for May Day.

There is nothing about the use of prison labor that benefits a free market. The opposite is true. By controlling a source of labor that can operate at below market prices it's easy to destroy any competion and gain total control. That is the antithesis of free market economics.

If anyone is a 'tankie' it's people who support government-supplied cheap labor...

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#356

Post by FooBarWidget »

catiopatio wrote: post #347
FooBarWidget wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you truly want to know what I think and why I think it, feel free to email me and take this discussion off HN. You can find my contact through my profile.

If you can’t make the case for China’s authoritarian capitalism here, I don’t see how picking it up over e-mail is going to help. It’s also counterproductive to take the debate offline, as further discussion would be for the benefit of anyone else that might read this thread. I’ll never agree that lifting people out of poverty requires authoritarian control over the populace.

It's not a case of not having arguments. HN moderators told me not to talk too much about China on HN. It's just me following the rules.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#357

Post by beepbooptheory »

int_19h wrote: post #309
beepbooptheory wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Euro-socialism is what most of those kids want, whether they are aware of putting it in those terms or not. The culture wars seem to dictate that there are huge contingents of tankies among the youth, but that doesn't really seem to be the case on the ground (i.e. not on Twitter). The DSA, the biggest, by far, left-org in the US appears, at least to me, to be pushing a platform indistinguishable from a Euro m…

I don't think there's a coherent political goal for the Western activist left. There's a laundry list of wishes, and a general vague notion that they can't be obtained "because capitalism". From there it quickly devolves into guillotine memes and such, but I don't think there are many people who are even well versed in Marxism or other hard left ideologies and actively pursuing their goals - it's mostly just venting.

I think this is right. I would just say Euro-socialism is itself a laundry list of hotfixes over capitalism.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#358

Post by Waterluvian »

boveus wrote: post #79

>It encouraged workers to vacation with groups of relative strangers as opposed to their friends and families. This can actually work out well. I experienced something similar in the US while on vacation. I was traveling with someone from Glenwood Springs, CO to Denver, CO via Amtrak. We went to the dining car for lunch an since there were two of us and space is at a premium, the Amtrak policy was to seat us with one…

I’m reminded of the last story in Buster Scruggs. The conversation had by a group of such different people. …so long as the train isn’t going to the same destination.

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#359

Post by granshaw »

ahelwer wrote: post #342
nradov wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want to work for a year then just quit your job and then get a new job later. But it's ridiculous and unrealistic to think that an employer should hold your job open for a year. How are they supposed to get work done during that period, hire a temporary employee and then lay them off when you decide to return? If you want that lifestyle then just become an independent consultant rather than an employee.…

If you aren't careful you'll find yourself making an argument against maternity leave, like you just did.

Anyone who ever wants to make an argument against maternity or even paternity leave just needs to experience a kid of their own. Seriously

Re: Vacations in the Soviet Union

#360

Post by explorer83 »

hkt wrote: post #76
explorer83 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know all of these things sound nice. But in the real world a lot of businesses aren't making the kind of profit that allows workers to just take time off and not generate any revenue for the company. Sure there are some that could pull it off. But most small businesses aren't making that kind of profit. Unless you are assuming workers are supposed to take unpaid time off. But then how are they going to afford to ta…

If your business can't pay its bills without forgoing its legal and moral responsibilities, it has failed.

Not really. It could be a new business that is only a few years old and is still trying to grow and become the type of business can afford these. Or an established business that lost a major client. Your viewpoint is really limited.
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