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New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

nytimes.com

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Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#861

Post by danny_codes »

blindriver wrote: post #286
dadjoker wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As California has shown multiple times, dependence on electricity alone can be disastrous.

California's strategy for electricity is non-existent. We have been perpetually at peak electricity use since 25+ years since I came here. Meanwhile electricity use from EVs has soared, and we don't have enough electricity for everything. AND we attempted to shut down nuclear power plants but that appears to be on hold for now. Plus, I'm paying over $0.50/kWh when I hit Tier 3, which I hit after 2 charges of my EV. E…

Reminder that pg&e is a for-profit monopoly. Reminder that this is the dumbest way of organizing an energy company imaginable. I literally can't think of anything so stupid. You know they make profit. They steal about 16 billion a year. Think about how much infra improvement we could do with 16 billion.

We could nationalize those assholes today.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#862

Post by myroon5 »

SheepSlapper wrote: post #478
galleywest200 wrote: post #46

Only 24% of my state (Washington) has gas stoves. We have already begun the process to ban Natural Gas into new buildings. Nothing major is happening and the sky is not falling. If you are curious about your state's ratio of gas to electric stoves, you can check here [PDF warning]: https://www.eia.gov/consumption/residential/data/2020/state/...

As a WA resident, we also see weeks of subzero temperatures every year. And we've had power outages that can last a few days (if you're lucky) to multiple weeks (rare but not unheard of). Knowing that I have natural gas as a backup source of heating my house is great, and I've had to use it multiple times already in the last 3 years. Having a backup method of ensuring my pipes don't freeze and my family is (mostly) c…

Most of Washington State lives around Seattle, which has never recorded subzero fahrenheit temperatures:

https://www.currentresults.com/Yearly-Weather/USA/WA/Seattle...

https://patch.com/washington/seattle/monday-was-seattles-col...

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#863

Post by danny_codes »

giardini wrote: post #642
rhaway84773 wrote: post #255

The reactions to the gas hookup ban really reminds me of how insular Americans really are. They can’t even imagine a world where gas does not come in pipes, when arguably that’s how the vast majority of the world lives. You want a gas stove? Buy a gas stove, and get a cylinder. No one is stopping you from doing that. Just don’t expect everyone else to subsidize running that gas in a pipe up to your gas stove.

No one "subsidizes" gas pipelines in most areas. Usually it is a (gasp) capitalistic private company that does that. But I agree it is easy to do it yourself with propane with one proviso: propane(like butane) has the somewhat insidious property that it is heavier than air so it flows downhill as it dissipates. If it flows to a spark or fire then a flame will spread from the point of first ignition to the propane sou…

Big false.

A state-sanctioned monopoly is hardly a private company. They can set any price they want and force you to pay. That's not capitalism, that's extortion.

So yes, gas infra is highly, highly subsidized. In a competitive market direct gas would have died out decades ago.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#864

Post by danny_codes »

inconceivable wrote: post #334
rhaway84773 wrote: post #255

The reactions to the gas hookup ban really reminds me of how insular Americans really are. They can’t even imagine a world where gas does not come in pipes, when arguably that’s how the vast majority of the world lives. You want a gas stove? Buy a gas stove, and get a cylinder. No one is stopping you from doing that. Just don’t expect everyone else to subsidize running that gas in a pipe up to your gas stove.

reducing quality of life to be more like the rest of the world is not really a great sales pitch. america is a sales-driven society.

Dumbest take I've heard all day. Banning gas would increase quality of life. Why subject yourself to pollution, gas leaks and expensive secondary energy infrastructure when you can just not do that.

I understand the gas lobby has spent billions convincing you otherwise, but the fact is that direct natural gas is far inferior to electricity at this point.

Some education for you:

https://youtu.be/hX2aZUav-54

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#865

Post by danans »

armatav wrote: post #846
danans wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m from a third world country, and now live in the Bay > You have zero idea what you’re talking about Same here. I've endured the sweltering tropical heat in a polluted developing-country city during power cuts, so I well understand what I'm talking about. > To give you context our place in SA was having a couple hours loadshedding a day, and here in one of the wealthiest neighborhoods our power was gone for three…

You understand that Palo Alto et co are on different power grids to Atherton/LAH/MV etc right? Highly localized across the entire bay for the atmospheric river a couple weeks ago. Again, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

> You understand that Palo Alto et co are on different power grids to Atherton/LAH/MV etc right?

They are not on a different grid at all. Most of California, and definitely the entire Bay Area is part of the same grid managed by CAISO:

https://www.caiso.com/Pages/default.aspx

Palo Alto has its own municipal utility. There is a huge difference. A municipal utility is only responsible for retail electric sales and distribution infrastructure in a specific area. That includes local substations and power lines, which are the likely source of your electricity reliability problems.

Palo Alto doesn't manage supply and demand in real time, maintaining 60Hz AC, or run the wholesale electricity markets. CAISO does those, along with transmission and regional interconnects, all of which are functions of the electric grid. The meanings of words matter when discussing these things.

> Again, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Thank you for the pleasant feedback.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#866

Post by danny_codes »

carabiner wrote: post #797
tohnjitor wrote: post #790

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the last straw in a long list of offensive and disrespectful actions the state government has taken.

Americans are fucking nuts. Induction works 10x better than gas.

Exactly. This dood drank the gas lobby koolaide hard

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#867

Post by perryizgr8 »

If you have to use the coercive power of the state to make people use X instead of Y, it means Y is better in more ways for more people. You're just being an authoritarian and crushing individual liberty. The justification (correct or incorrect) doesn't matter. If it were really better, people will gradually switch to electric cooking equipment on their own. Like how government never had to ban horse drawn carriages and force everyone to buy an automobile.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#868

Post by justin66 »

kenned3 wrote: post #795
culturestate wrote: post #688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in mainland China and Hong Kong for nearly a decade and had electric induction stoves in every apartment. Anecdotal evidence is, as ever, weak evidence.

[flagged]

> Here's the thing, one of you is lying and it is clear which one it is.

Not helpful.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#869

Post by baggy_trough »

justeleblanc wrote: post #809
baggy_trough wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think it’s nothing important. Others disagree, and get angry when they are forced to obey your preferences.

And I get angry when selfish people refuse to do anything to lower their emissions and impact me and my family.

If you think banning gas stoves will have any climate effect on your family, you are mistaken.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#870

Post by geoduck14 »

osigurdson wrote: post #806
kleiba wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such baloney - there's so many way more relevant factors to the taste of food then which power source was used to provide heat. I bet if you did a blind tasting you'd not be able to tell the difference.

How did we ever get to the point where we think it is fine to tell someone else how something tastes?

It started with arrogance
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