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Why are lithium prices collapsing?

internationalbanker.com

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Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#291

Post by snek_case »

misssocrates wrote: post #269
elif wrote: post #109

Because I see so much "conflict metals" discussion when lithium is discussed, I would like to contribute that less than 3% of global lithium production takes place on small artisanal mines, in which place human rights abuse may occur. Over 85% of lithium is produced by just 2 international corporations with large scale mines complying with multiple international regulation requirements.

Are people confusing lithium with cobalt? Where 70% of it comes from the Congo.

Also worth pointing out that much of EVs and grid storage are shifting to cobalt-free lithium iron phosphate batteries. Many people aren't aware of that.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#292

Post by robertlagrant »

giantg2 wrote: post #254
marcusverus wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your article is pretending that the water access issues are caused by lithium mining. This is a specious argument that only makes sense because they omitted the obviously pertinent fact that Chile is in the grip of a decade-long drought. That's FUD, my dude.

"That's FUD, my dude." Only if you explain it the way you just did. The fact is, instead of restricting water usage related to lithium mining, they'd rather let the river run dry. While the drough is a major factor, so too is how the regulations allow the continued abuse of the limited resource.

If lithium mining brings in money to buy water and other things as well, then it's not great, but it's probably the better choice.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#293

Post by retinaros »

marcosdumay wrote: post #281
misssocrates wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are people confusing lithium with cobalt? Where 70% of it comes from the Congo.

Yes. And I guess some people insist on the confusion on purpose. It doesn't matter how many times people point it out, the confusion keeps happening.

just like people against nuclear. we can see that live in germany

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#294

Post by Reason077 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #194
Reason077 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this example, the use of futures contracts isn't really gambling. Quite the opposite: it's insurance!

> it's insurance What’s the person on the other side of the trade up to? This debate reminds me of the lead up to the Onion Futures Act, where moral outrage over speculation led to a ban and subsequent lack of insurance (and higher price volatility) for onion farmers. To the point that the son of the farmer who first lobbied for the ban returned to Congress to ask for its repeal. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/O…

> "What’s the person on the other side of the trade up to?"

The same thing: hedging/insuring against price changes. The supplier (ultimately, a farmer, steel mill, gold miner, electricity generator, etc) is getting a guaranteed price for the commodity they're selling, reducing risk.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#295

Post by Reason077 »

uoaei wrote: post #180
Reason077 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this example, the use of futures contracts isn't really gambling. Quite the opposite: it's insurance!

You can try to play word games all you want but they are faulty in a very transparent way. No one is falling for it.

Faulty how?

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#296

Post by longemen3000 »

bohadi wrote: post #90
nprateem wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chile https://www.ft.com/content/ebd48bbc-1390-4679-99fe-682975bbd...

Here's some wild speculation grounded on a wisp of research: Eurasia based cartel had cornered the market on lithium vital for new energy. US based interests bent the ear of the Chilean government to break this monopoly by nationalizing these privately owned mines and rediverting the supply. Speculators got wrecked. Does anyone know if a Credit Suisse customer had dealings in Chile?

tianqi sold all his shares of SQM (one of Chile lithium companies, around 23%) after the announcement. The situation of the lithium in Chile is very particular. in the Pinochet dictatorship, litium was nationalized, because it was a key ingredient of atomic bombs (and not much else at that time), and USA didn't want other countries to access the resource, so all current mines are in a lease contract (Albemarle until 2043, SQM until 2030). the new proposition opens new zones for exploitation, in exchange of the public-private parnership

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#297

Post by lotsofpulp »

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #253
lotsofpulp wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But there's a material difference between "attempting, in good faith, to determine what the demand for a commodity will be in the future, and buying based on that" and "attempting to determine what the price of a commodity on the futures market will be and buying based on that". These are indistinguishable. Unless you want to restrict markets to being only between suppliers and consumers, there will always be middle…

> Unless you want to restrict markets to being only between suppliers and consumers That is what I would like to do, yes.

That is how they were in the beginning. I recommend reading about the development of markets and futures trading to see what benefits they provide, as they are a component of any developed economy around the world.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#299

Post by osigurdson »

s0rce wrote: post #250
osigurdson wrote: post #223

So basically, we can’t switch to EVs because people don’t have enough money. The crowd that thinks poverty is the solution to climate change proven wrong once again.

We could switch to buses, trains and bicycles though, with even greater impact on reducing emissions.

Those are all part of the mix, but the car is an essential part of it as well.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#300

Post by pixl97 »

13of40 wrote: post #260
AzzieElbab wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former citizen of the USSR, I have to object to linking environmental issues to private property. The Soviets did all kinds of tremendously bad things ranking, from geo-transformation to placing the heavy industry in the middle of cities. From what I read about North Korea, the entire country is ruined by various extraction and industrial projects.

Not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to share my own take, which is that one of the clearest, bluest skies I've ever seen was over North Korea. Because they sucked at doing "industry" compared to the South Koreans. In the 90s in South Korea, the rivers ran black and every corner you turned had its own putrid chemical smell from whatever fly-by-night entrepraneur had found a way to make a buck there. But that's an an…

Right, but in NK you starved to death at the governments whim as they had little to no ability to feed themselves.

These conversations are barely worth having unless you're willing to go into long chains of explaining the complexity behind the situations.

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