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Why are lithium prices collapsing?

internationalbanker.com

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Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#251

Post by landemva »

elif wrote: post #109

Because I see so much "conflict metals" discussion when lithium is discussed, I would like to contribute that less than 3% of global lithium production takes place on small artisanal mines, in which place human rights abuse may occur. Over 85% of lithium is produced by just 2 international corporations with large scale mines complying with multiple international regulation requirements.

> mines complying with multiple international regulation requirements

Really? Please cite which regs apply in North Korea.

I am an actual miner. We have State and national regulators who visit and have authority to stop work. I have neither seen nor heard of international regulators.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#252

Post by enragedcacti »

ericmay wrote: post #126
shlant wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I bet some of it also like, ok you’re banning gas stoves that I like cooking on but everybody owning a Ford F-850 and private jets are still cool (from an environmental perspective)? Seems like a spending a few bucks to save a few pennys kind of scenario. The health argument is fair but seems like it shouldn’t be a mandatory requirement so much as a safety warning (based on my current understanding). The fact that we…

> The fact that we are even talking about it I guess served the original goal which was to distract from other, larger problems and discussions.

The bans that may actually go into effect (e.g. NY) are bans on nat gas in new construction, not gas stoves. Gas stoves may be a drop in the bucket but nat gas heating is not. the reason we are talking about gas stoves is to distract from the actual issue of transforming our residential energy infrastructure.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#253

Post by BeFlatXIII »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #99
danaris wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there's a material difference between "attempting, in good faith, to determine what the demand for a commodity will be in the future, and buying based on that" and "attempting to determine what the price of a commodity on the futures market will be and buying based on that". When people say that a commodity's price is being driven by speculation and gambling, they mean that it has shifted from the former to the l…

>But there's a material difference between "attempting, in good faith, to determine what the demand for a commodity will be in the future, and buying based on that" and "attempting to determine what the price of a commodity on the futures market will be and buying based on that". These are indistinguishable. Unless you want to restrict markets to being only between suppliers and consumers, there will always be middle…

> Unless you want to restrict markets to being only between suppliers and consumers

That is what I would like to do, yes.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#254

Post by giantg2 »

marcusverus wrote: post #197
botanical wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A legacy of the Pinochet era in Chile is the privatisation of minerals and water, which gives companies ownership of those resources in an area. While mining operations squeeze this already dry region even drier, communities lose their access to potable water, leaving them relying on tankers to deliver it. “We used to have a river before that now doesn’t exist. There isn’t a drop of water,” says Rivera. “And not on…

Your article is pretending that the water access issues are caused by lithium mining. This is a specious argument that only makes sense because they omitted the obviously pertinent fact that Chile is in the grip of a decade-long drought. That's FUD, my dude.

"That's FUD, my dude."

Only if you explain it the way you just did.

The fact is, instead of restricting water usage related to lithium mining, they'd rather let the river run dry. While the drough is a major factor, so too is how the regulations allow the continued abuse of the limited resource.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#255

Post by megaman821 »

BeFlatXIII wrote: post #247
aintgonnatakeit wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happens with the gas stove threads. I can’t believe that actual people are that invested in burning hydrocarbons.

The gas stove bans are idiotic and petty to defend based on environmentalist principles. The amount of gas burned by those stoves makes roughly zero impact compared with all the other hydrocarbons we burn.

The ban of gas connections and by extension gas water heaters, gas furnaces and gas stoves is being reframed to be just gas stoves. So yes, if you cherry-pick the lowest impact item out of the list of gas appliances, the impact is low.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#256

Post by oceanplexian »

aintgonnatakeit wrote: post #113
api wrote: post #111

The space is saturated with anti-EV FUD.

Same thing happens with the gas stove threads. I can’t believe that actual people are that invested in burning hydrocarbons.

They put out less BTUs (9k vs 15k-25k from a high end gas burner) and you can’t cook certain types of cuisines like a stir fry, getting a good sear on steaks, etc. As someone who went from Gas to Electric it really is a massive downgrade.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#257

Post by comte7092 »

jdkoeck wrote: post #221
vegetablepotpie wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lithium is not the only cause of aquifer depletion in Chile, avocado farms have also been responsible for depleting the wells of residents [1]. These outcomes, as the article alludes to, are due to the privatization of resource rights, which is a consequence of Pinochet government going all in on the policies Milton Friedman promoted [2]. Citizens of Chile are more victims of neoliberalism than they are of any partic…

From wikipedia: « In 2010, Chile was the first nation in South America to win membership in the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development, an organization restricted to the world's richest countries » Victims of neoliberalism you say?

Chile has a GDP per capita not all that different from peer South American countries of Argentina and Uruguay [0]. It is a stretch to characterize “winning” membership to the OECD as some sort of objective, non ideological measure of economic progress.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)...

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#258

Post by AmpsterMan »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #202
botanical wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A legacy of the Pinochet era in Chile is the privatisation of minerals and water, which gives companies ownership of those resources in an area. While mining operations squeeze this already dry region even drier, communities lose their access to potable water, leaving them relying on tankers to deliver it. “We used to have a river before that now doesn’t exist. There isn’t a drop of water,” says Rivera. “And not on…

As a former citizen of the USSR, I have to object to linking environmental issues to private property. The Soviets did all kinds of tremendously bad things ranking, from geo-transformation to placing the heavy industry in the middle of cities. From what I read about North Korea, the entire country is ruined by various extraction and industrial projects.

The important part is the "complete ownership of those rights". In the Soviet Union, a community had no rights and little power by ways of representative government to defend themselves. It's little different in the case of Chile. Do the nuances of state/corporate ownership of resources mean anything when they are both large, far off organizations exploiting my land with little of my own say?

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#259

Post by ZeroGravitas »

jdkoeck wrote: post #221
vegetablepotpie wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lithium is not the only cause of aquifer depletion in Chile, avocado farms have also been responsible for depleting the wells of residents [1]. These outcomes, as the article alludes to, are due to the privatization of resource rights, which is a consequence of Pinochet government going all in on the policies Milton Friedman promoted [2]. Citizens of Chile are more victims of neoliberalism than they are of any partic…

From wikipedia: « In 2010, Chile was the first nation in South America to win membership in the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development, an organization restricted to the world's richest countries » Victims of neoliberalism you say?

Quoting a right wing economics friendly source:

"Pinochet's economic policy is vastly overrated"

> Mining a bunch of copper, helping your cronies get rich, and pumping up land prices is not a "miracle".

https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/pinochets-economic-policy-is-v...

> In the U.S., Pinochet is often a talking point in economics debates. He was a brutal dictator, who killed thousands and who tortured, imprisoned, and/or exiled tens of thousands more. It’s very understandable that Chileans would want to expunge any portion of his legacy. But in the U.S., it’s his economic policy that continues to be debated decades later. Some libertarians believe that despite the brutality of his regime, he implemented economic policies that were wildly successful in raising Chilean living standards.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#260

Post by 13of40 »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #202
botanical wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A legacy of the Pinochet era in Chile is the privatisation of minerals and water, which gives companies ownership of those resources in an area. While mining operations squeeze this already dry region even drier, communities lose their access to potable water, leaving them relying on tankers to deliver it. “We used to have a river before that now doesn’t exist. There isn’t a drop of water,” says Rivera. “And not on…

As a former citizen of the USSR, I have to object to linking environmental issues to private property. The Soviets did all kinds of tremendously bad things ranking, from geo-transformation to placing the heavy industry in the middle of cities. From what I read about North Korea, the entire country is ruined by various extraction and industrial projects.

Not saying you're wrong, but I'd like to share my own take, which is that one of the clearest, bluest skies I've ever seen was over North Korea. Because they sucked at doing "industry" compared to the South Koreans. In the 90s in South Korea, the rivers ran black and every corner you turned had its own putrid chemical smell from whatever fly-by-night entrepraneur had found a way to make a buck there. But that's an anecdote and I haven't been back to see what it's like now.
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