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Why are lithium prices collapsing?

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Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#151

Post by botanical »

api wrote: post #111

The space is saturated with anti-EV FUD.

> A legacy of the Pinochet era in Chile is the privatisation of minerals and water, which gives companies ownership of those resources in an area. While mining operations squeeze this already dry region even drier, communities lose their access to potable water, leaving them relying on tankers to deliver it.

“We used to have a river before that now doesn’t exist. There isn’t a drop of water,” says Rivera. “And not only here in Copiapó but in all of Chile, there are rivers and lakes that have disappeared—all because a company has a lot more right to water than we do as human beings or citizens of Chile.”

https://www.nrdc.org/stories/lithium-mining-leaving-chiles-i...

And this is in Chile, the second largest producer of lithium. Just because it goes against your views it being anti-EV, doesn't make it FUD. People have other types of grievances like the human cost of lithium mining, even for the amazing storage capability of lithium batteries.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#152

Post by praxulus »

api wrote: post #120
shlant wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It's sublimated class resentment. People resent things that are perceived as coming down upon them from a coastal rich Ivy League educated elite that is perceived as holding them in contempt. It all just sounds like rich people in private jets flying around telling them to use less energy to save the planet. There is of course too much inequality, but it's not because of EVs or phasing out gas stoves.

Most Americans already have electric stoves, and its disproportionately higher income people who still cook with gas.

I know this is all based more on vibes than facts though.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#153

Post by kibwen »

simoncion wrote: post #142
aintgonnatakeit wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happens with the gas stove threads. I can’t believe that actual people are that invested in burning hydrocarbons.

> I can’t believe that actual people are that invested in burning hydrocarbons. Yeah, it's weird, right? Why _are_ people so invested in burning natgas and coal and other hydrocarbons for large-scale power generation when a plethora of proven near-zero-emissions alternatives exist? From a climate-change perspective, banning natgas cookstoves is a few pennies saved on like a thousand dollar expenditure. It's similar t…

Forget burning, even pumping gas to residences is itself a big source of emissions, because of how leaky the pipes are. Between two to seven percent of all gas put into the system is lost directly to the atmosphere, and it's a very potent greenhouse gas.

One way or the other, it needs to go away. It's not performative, it's necessary for achieving long-term emissions goals, and it's low-hanging fruit.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#154

Post by vostok »

simoncion wrote: post #142
aintgonnatakeit wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happens with the gas stove threads. I can’t believe that actual people are that invested in burning hydrocarbons.

> I can’t believe that actual people are that invested in burning hydrocarbons. Yeah, it's weird, right? Why _are_ people so invested in burning natgas and coal and other hydrocarbons for large-scale power generation when a plethora of proven near-zero-emissions alternatives exist? From a climate-change perspective, banning natgas cookstoves is a few pennies saved on like a thousand dollar expenditure. It's similar t…

I don't have any statistics on this, but I feel like I see far fewer plastic bags littering the streets these days. That alone is a win for me personally.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#155

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

wffurr wrote: post #127
adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what aspect of performance are they missing?

Two big use cases: 1) Wok cooking, can’t use a round bottomed wok easily or create “wok hei”. Though you can also do it with a blowtorch: https://www.seriouseats.com/hei-now-youre-a-wok-star-a-fiery... 2) Causing childhood asthma. Gotta employ all those healthcare workers somehow…

Induction Wok systems do exist... https://www.nuwavenow.com/shop/mosaic

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#156

Post by kibwen »

ericmay wrote: post #126
shlant wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I bet some of it also like, ok you’re banning gas stoves that I like cooking on but everybody owning a Ford F-850 and private jets are still cool (from an environmental perspective)? Seems like a spending a few bucks to save a few pennys kind of scenario. The health argument is fair but seems like it shouldn’t be a mandatory requirement so much as a safety warning (based on my current understanding). The fact that we…

If it's a "distraction", it's because reactionaries are making it one. I don't have a private jet or an F-10,000 (I don't even own a car), and I can see that the pro-gas crowd hasn't considered how good induction cooktops and heat pumps have gotten, and how rapidly they're still improving. The writing is on the wall, there's no future for piping gas to residences, so if you're a government you might as well prepare to stop investing in gas infrastructure now.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#158

Post by defrost »

anamexis wrote: post #144
refurb wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kind of a ridiculous argument. Sure, international corporations violate human rights, but unless you provide proof these lithium corporations are, then we can just assume they aren't.

Why would that be a reasonable assumption?

Largest companies digging in the dirt creating the vast bulk of the world's lithium concentrates (prior to refining in Chima | Malaysia) are in Chile and Australia and all are listed on the Canadian Toronto TSX exchange.

Minerals and Resources rules for exchange listing are pretty tight with respect filing third party independant reports that assess mineral volumes and estimates, economic feasibility, environmental impact, and human rights etc.

While it's possible that some things are covered up in these relatively modern capital projects (eg: like conditions mining copper in PNG in days of yore leaving substantial impacts today) it's unlikely due to modern communications and the known fact that everything gets out and doesn't remain hidden - more so today than back when PNG was literally and figuratively obscured by clouds.

Austrlia is keeping clean, and you can knock yourself out looking into

https://lithiumchile.ca/

and report anything you find to the TSX.

Re: Why are lithium prices collapsing?

#160

Post by kibwen »

hyperbovine wrote: post #119
aintgonnatakeit wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happens with the gas stove threads. I can’t believe that actual people are that invested in burning hydrocarbons.

For serious chefs, gas ranges remain far superior to their electric counterparts. I’ll be the first in line to buy an induction cooktop that performs as well as a high end gas range, but we’re not there yet.

My serious chef friends (one professional, one amateur) swear by their induction stoves. Their expensive high-end gas ranges are gathering dust.

Once you've tried induction, going back to gas feels absolutely primitive.

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