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New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

nytimes.com

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Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#391

Post by [deleted] »

lelanthran wrote: post #316
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The total effect on health seems rather debatable, and even if so there are better solutions (e.g. minimum ventilation requirements) for that. Total bans on products people use and can enjoy responsibility due to potential health risks is nearly always a bad idea in my opinion. Just look at smoking in the US, for example, which recently hit an all time low. We could have gone the prohibition route (and we can guess h…

As far as I know, the lower levels of smoking have not made the US health outcomes any better than places where smoking is at ridiculously high levels, like France.

[deleted]

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#392

Post by operatingthetan »

nonethewiser wrote: post #369
operatingthetan wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for me it hasn't, you seem to be describing a very specific edge case, which doesn't seem that honest of an example.

I don’t see him overstating anything. He didn’t say everyone experienced it.

>He didn’t say everyone experienced it.

They clearly over-generalized. I didn't say they "overstated." They didn't say "in some parts of Seattle" they said "in Seattle."

I'm sure there have been edge cases in every state of the country where the power has been 10 days at someone's house because of unique circumstances. That doesn't meaningfully change the risk profile of a heat pump over gas furnaces.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#393

Post by Blikkentrekker »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #166

I don't often like to take a "both sides" approach when assessing specific issues, but this one just seems to highlight the stupidity, or at the very least shortsightedness, of both sides. On one hand, for those pushing for a ban, this seems largely performative, a la banning plastic straws. Gas is used for 2 main reasons: for cooking, where it represents a miniscule amount of overall energy use, and for heating, whe…

I don't understand banning these kinds of things in general opposed to simply taxing them considerably.

A man should have the freedom to damage the environment so long as he pay for it, and that money can then be used to undo his damage.

Of course, it's always quite inconsistent how these things are applied based on cultural reasons. I've been in favor for a long time for higher taxes on paper. The production of paper is apparently 1/5 of deforestation and there really is not much justification for it now with alternatives with less of an environmental footprint, but too many people, even those who supposedly stand for the environment, are too emotionally attached to paper for cultural reasons to see this ever pass.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#394

Post by amalcon »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #176
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #166

I don't often like to take a "both sides" approach when assessing specific issues, but this one just seems to highlight the stupidity, or at the very least shortsightedness, of both sides. On one hand, for those pushing for a ban, this seems largely performative, a la banning plastic straws. Gas is used for 2 main reasons: for cooking, where it represents a miniscule amount of overall energy use, and for heating, whe…

There is also a third problem with this.... what happens when shit hits the fan? If you use gas and your neighbours use electricity, and there's suddenly a power outage, you can help your neighbors and heat/cook their food too,... or in case of a gas system outage, they can help with yours. If you heat with gas, you don't freeze even with a power outage, and can still buy a cheap electric heater with a gas outage...…

I have a propane camping stove (a slightly modernized version of the classic Coleman model). This is the main reason why. They aren't that expensive, and you can also take it camping or set it up near your outdoor grill to prepare a side.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#395

Post by seanalltogether »

iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

> But when you dig into the details, it seems like the change may not have much effect on climate change at all.

Are you saying that if we got rid of all gas burning appliances in homes, that would not have much effect on climate change?

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#396

Post by iamdamian »

seanalltogether wrote: post #395
iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

> But when you dig into the details, it seems like the change may not have much effect on climate change at all. Are you saying that if we got rid of all gas burning appliances in homes, that would not have much effect on climate change?

> Are you saying that if we got rid of all gas burning appliances in homes, that would not have much effect on climate change?

Yes. (Also, I welcome strong evidence to the contrary.)

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#397

Post by stevehawk »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #382
iamdamian wrote: post #365

This regulation feels quite frustrating to me, and several comments in this thread illustrate why. This change is being promoted as a critical step in the fight against climate change. (See most news articles over the past two years covering this.) But when you dig into the details, it seems like the regulation may not have much effect on climate change at all. When you point this out to advocates, you'll get an enti…

1. Because destroying the planet affects everyone and injuring yourself costs everyone else in state spending. We also don’t allow asbestos or releasing poison gas in your garden. 2. Would you consider spreading awareness a suitable solution to knife crime? No? I wonder why.

i don't follow your argument on #2.

i also dont understand why we can't have legislation that says "you can only have a stove cooktop if its properly vented"..

In the winter, when i lose electricity, i can run my house on a small amount of power because i have natural gas heat, cooktop, clothes dryer, and two natural gas fireplaces. I'm not particularly interested in giving up that safety or luxury.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#398

Post by nonethewiser »

downut wrote: post #116
mkinsella wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. An induction cooktop and electric stove are far superior to gas.

I am curious how one pops popcorn, shakes a pan, throws the pan, and heats the sides of the pan when eg reducing stock. How do woks work, exactly, on an induction burner? Why does spilling liquids cause the problems I encountered? Why does the bottom of the pans have to be perfectly flat? Some of my cast iron skillets (whoops never mind) are 50 years or more old and are not perfectly flat. They cook fantastic on a ga…

Charring peppers

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#399

Post by gwbas1c »

catiopatio wrote: post #340
gwbas1c wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regarding heat pumps phasing out gas heat, in NY it isn’t feasible. It gets too cold I live in MA and heat my whole house with a heat pump. It works fine. I have an electric strip for backup. My house (and heat pump) are five years old. The newer ones are better; Lennox's new model can work in Upstate New York without a backup heat source : https://www.energy.gov/articles/doe-announces-breakthrough-r... (I will adm…

> I really, really regret installing a gas stove Why?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35756895

We HAVE to run the fan when we turn on the stove or oven. That's not the case with electric / induction.

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