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New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

nytimes.com

111–120 of 1001 posts

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a third world country if you measure things by quality of government services And yet Californians pay enormous taxes.

Californians actually pay lower overall taxes compared to other states due to low property taxes. Also, my power in San Francisco has probably been out for no more than 6 hours over the last 10 years. I don't know how many 9s that is, but it's more than 1.

This seems to indicate otherwise

https://www.prudential.com/financial-education/tax-burden-by...

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a third world country if you measure things by quality of government services And yet Californians pay enormous taxes.

Californians actually pay lower overall taxes compared to other states due to low property taxes. Also, my power in San Francisco has probably been out for no more than 6 hours over the last 10 years. I don't know how many 9s that is, but it's more than 1.

This article disputes your claim:

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-bur...

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#114

Berkeley attempted this and it was recently overturned: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/court-overturns-berkeley-califo... California's electric grid is in horrendous shape. We can barely keep the power on in the summertime, especially when wildfires happen. When the power is out, am I expected to start a fire in my yard to cook food? Fire up my JetBoil? My BBQ?

Eugene tried this as well. City council passed it without input from the community and is facing backlash. Since the 9th circuit decision, the ordinance has been called into question.

https://www.bendbulletin.com/business/eugene-s-natural-gas-b...

The community has since generated enough signatures to put the ban to a public vote that will be voted on in November. Anecdotally, I'd say, most my neighbors are against the ban, judging from the names on the petition that I signed when they dropped through.

Personally, I believe folks should have the liberty to choose the best solution for their energy needs. I do a bit of home brewing, and I can say, without question, gas is superior for heating a large quantity of water quickly and keeping it at temp throughout the process. I even looked into electric brew kettles and >10G vessels require a dedicated 240V circuit.

Taking this all into account, I'm not sure I'll be buying / building within city limits. That or I'll just move to using my own methane composting biogas bladder. I'd love to see the greenies tell me I can't make my own gas in my back yard via composting.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#115
post #85

Berkeley attempted this and it was recently overturned: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/court-overturns-berkeley-califo... California's electric grid is in horrendous shape. We can barely keep the power on in the summertime, especially when wildfires happen. When the power is out, am I expected to start a fire in my yard to cook food? Fire up my JetBoil? My BBQ?

Most people around here buy enough battery or generators to keep the power on. PG&E is way below one nine of availability this year, but the outlets inside our house are at 6 nines followed by an eight. Granted, once the propane rationing started, a few of our neighbors lost power for extended periods of time (weeks). The phone company doesn’t maintain internet if the power is out, but there is starlink, and fiber co…

> PG&E is way below one nine of availability this year

You’ve been without utility power for two full weeks in 2023?!

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#116

How soon until "new" homes come with a blank space for the new owner to install an aftermarket stove that can cook food properly?

Agreed. An induction cooktop and electric stove are far superior to gas.

I am curious how one pops popcorn, shakes a pan, throws the pan, and heats the sides of the pan when eg reducing stock. How do woks work, exactly, on an induction burner? Why does spilling liquids cause the problems I encountered? Why does the bottom of the pans have to be perfectly flat? Some of my cast iron skillets (whoops never mind) are 50 years or more old and are not perfectly flat. They cook fantastic on a gas range. My All-Clad skillets reduce stock while caramalizing above the liquid level, and... the flavor gain is detectable. My only a few years old set of de Buyers "work" on induction but they're not perfectly flat, either. They are ever so slightly concave up in the center. They work fantastic too on a gas burner, but are a disaster on induction.

While moving house across the country, our Viking gas range preceding us, I installed a moderately high end induction stove (~$1600) and cooked on it for three weeks before I completely gave up. I even bought "induction ready" pots and pans! No doubt it improved the resale value of the kitchen but for people with competent technique, an induction cook top is a culinary disaster.

Far superior? Yeah, I don't think so.

I really wanted to love that induction stove, it's why I paid extra for one to sell the house. But I was duped. Ah well there is theory and there is practice, and I remind myself yet again to always stick to practice.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#117
post #17

And NPR told me that the possibility of gas stoves being banned was fake outrage: https://www.npr.org/2023/01/20/1150228734/the-facts-and-stra... .

There’s a difference between “no new construction with gas stoves” and “seizing all gas stoves” lol

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#118
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people around here buy enough battery or generators to keep the power on. PG&E is way below one nine of availability this year, but the outlets inside our house are at 6 nines followed by an eight. Granted, once the propane rationing started, a few of our neighbors lost power for extended periods of time (weeks). The phone company doesn’t maintain internet if the power is out, but there is starlink, and fiber co…

[flagged]

Not delusional at all. I appreciate that this acknowledges it doesn't have to be this way. Governments don't have to be dominated by the private market's profit motive.

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#119
post #19

"In addition to the environmental concerns raised by such widespread use of natural gas, some health experts have also argued that using it in the home, especially when cooking, may pose a health risk to consumers." Spending a day walking around NYC is probably worse for my health than years of gas stove usage. Every time I leave the city I feel like I need a shower from all the grime and who knows what I feel caked…

Wow. Where in NYC are you walking?

Re: New York to ban natural gas, including stoves, in new buildings

#120

How soon until "new" homes come with a blank space for the new owner to install an aftermarket stove that can cook food properly?

Agreed. An induction cooktop and electric stove are far superior to gas.

Is this consensus opinion? I personally find gas to be far superior. It could be that I’ve used low quality electric.
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