81–90 of 1001 posts
Like, this is why people in rural areas hate big cities. This is completely fair for NYC. Not for the rest of NY. Not without a lot of investment from the government.
You’re effectively left with oil, wood, and electric heat. All three have a lot of their own problems and difficulties.
Everyone is worked up about losing their gas stove, but natural gas heating is far more reliable and efficient than any electric option right now. This will create a lot of issues until heat pumps catch up. Northern New York is very cold.
This is completely false. Gas heating is way, way less efficient than a heat pump. And don't bring up low temperatures, modern heat pumps can have back up resistive heaters and combined use will still be far, far more efficient than gas heat. If you can install geothermal that's better still. Stop spreading fossil fuel industry lies.
And NPR told me that the possibility of gas stoves being banned was fake outrage: https://www.npr.org/2023/01/20/1150228734/the-facts-and-stra... .
Republicans Mocked Over Outraged Claims Government 'Coming for' Gas Stoves https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-mocked-over-outraged-cl...
"... the rightwing immolation at the mere suggestion of a gas stove ban is just one more line on a long list of rightwing lies made for political gain." https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jan/18/how-di...
As usual, "That's not going to happen!" gives way in short order to "It's a good thing that it is going to happen!"
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, but the vast majority of the population of New York State lives in places where air source heat pumps work just fine. Air source heat pumps can be built to work down to at least -20 Fahrenheit[1]. That's equal to the coldest temperature on record in places like Buffalo and Albany. For those relatively few people living in places which get even colder than that, there's the option of either ground loop heat pumps…
But is it more efficient overall? Gas to elec, infrastructure losses, etc. vs just gas to heat?
Also, if the power plant is integrated into a CHP system to heat nearby households then generation gets back some percent.
Berkeley attempted this and it was recently overturned: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/court-overturns-berkeley-califo... California's electric grid is in horrendous shape. We can barely keep the power on in the summertime, especially when wildfires happen. When the power is out, am I expected to start a fire in my yard to cook food? Fire up my JetBoil? My BBQ?
Granted, once the propane rationing started, a few of our neighbors lost power for extended periods of time (weeks). The phone company doesn’t maintain internet if the power is out, but there is starlink, and fiber co-ops are starting to spring up.
This is the SF Bay Area, so it’s pretty much a third world country if you measure things by quality of government services. I assume this isn’t typical for most other parts of the country.
Everyone is worked up about losing their gas stove, but natural gas heating is far more reliable and efficient than any electric option right now. This will create a lot of issues until heat pumps catch up. Northern New York is very cold.
This is completely false. Gas heating is way, way less efficient than a heat pump. And don't bring up low temperatures, modern heat pumps can have back up resistive heaters and combined use will still be far, far more efficient than gas heat. If you can install geothermal that's better still. Stop spreading fossil fuel industry lies.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree with everything you said except there has been a war on heating oil since before this tiff with natural gas. So even suggesting that is anathema because it would be career suicide for the politicians pushing this. You can certainly use an oil furnace as a second stage, though oil is more often used as a boiler for steam or hydronic.
Storing heating oil is risky, expensive and is a dirty use of a property due to the need for an underground or above ground tank. Abatement of tank leaks can run into the millions as you have to dig up all soil contaminated by heating oil when the tank is retired, and tank retirement is a cost that holds up many property sales and redevelopment here in the Pacific Northwest.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is completely false. Gas heating is way, way less efficient than a heat pump. And don't bring up low temperatures, modern heat pumps can have back up resistive heaters and combined use will still be far, far more efficient than gas heat. If you can install geothermal that's better still. Stop spreading fossil fuel industry lies.
At very low temperatures? I think if you're above zero F, you should be ok, but below zero it gets expensive. They're not talking about taxing gas - they're talking about banning it.
Did you read my comment before replying? I already addressed this. Yes I am talking about well below zero F.
> They're not talking about taxing gas - they're talking about banning it.
Yes and they should ban it. Electric heating is way more efficient, doesn't poison the occupants and can be powered from renwable sources.
Berkeley attempted this and it was recently overturned: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/court-overturns-berkeley-califo... California's electric grid is in horrendous shape. We can barely keep the power on in the summertime, especially when wildfires happen. When the power is out, am I expected to start a fire in my yard to cook food? Fire up my JetBoil? My BBQ?
Most people around here buy enough battery or generators to keep the power on. PG&E is way below one nine of availability this year, but the outlets inside our house are at 6 nines followed by an eight. Granted, once the propane rationing started, a few of our neighbors lost power for extended periods of time (weeks). The phone company doesn’t maintain internet if the power is out, but there is starlink, and fiber co…
How soon until "new" homes come with a blank space for the new owner to install an aftermarket stove that can cook food properly?
Agreed. An induction cooktop and electric stove are far superior to gas.