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Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

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Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#201

Post by alpaca128 »

0zemp2c wrote: post #141
itsoktocry wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> losing market share every year for a decade (Microsoft doesn't even seem to care afaict) Of course they care. Windows, at one point, had 95% market share. Do you believe that to be sustainable? Do we want that? No, in both cases. They are still dominant in desktop computing. > offers 10x the performance the average person will need Why is buying something 10x more powerful than you'd need at 2x the price "good valu…

> Of course they care. for the last ten years Microsoft has pushed all of its effort into Azure, which is coincidentally based on Linux (!) accept it, they gave up on Windows. Windows 11 is my proof...a lame re-skinning which can't even displace Windows 10 > You should have a look at Windows' desktop market share and get back to us. They still own the space. no one under 25 uses Windows! Go look at any college classr…

> just walk into any college classroom in America...

America isn't the world. Walk into any classroom outside the US and you'll see something very different.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#202

Post by giantrobot »

jscipione wrote: post #155

Something is going on with Xeon-W. Intel started "shipping" Ice Lake Xeon-W in June 2021 [0], yet today in April 2023 major PC OEM vendors such as Lenovo, [1] Dell, [2] HP [3] and Apple [4] are still shipping workstations with the older Skylake Xeons in them and none of them offer a workstation with Ice Lake Xeon-W. Either the chips are not available in volume or a large segment of the PC industry decided not to upda…

The case for Apple is sort of obvious, the Mac Pro has always been slow to rev and has always had slow sales. Apple has also been transitioning to their ARM CPUs so they're not going to double down on x86 on a single line of machines.

I'd imagine other manufacturers are in a similar boat. They put in orders for Skylake Xeons for machines that sell slowly. Pandemic sales went into laptops for home offices rather than $5k desktop workstations. Desktop workstations have never flown off the shelves but are flying off more slowly than normal.

Ryzen and i9 laptops and a beefy VPS have been good enough for many WFHers so no one is buying desktop workstations. Manufacturers aren't going to jump to new Xeon parts if they're sitting on old stock.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#203

Post by masklinn »

throwaway2037 wrote: post #188
irisgrunn wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incredibly similar to what's happening (has happened) to Philips.

Can you explain more? I also sense the Philips is a fading giant, but I struggle to a put a finger on it. Part of it might be that it is constantly spinning out divisions into separate companies.

They don’t just spin out divisions, they keep spinning out innovative and revenue generating divisions, leaving Philips with no ability to do anything, and with what they’re currently doing: selling the brand for Chinese white-labels to put on their product as they try to move up the chain.

Essentially Philips had spent 30 years selling the bones of the group, leaving just a skin-suit. Which they’re now selling as well.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#204

Post by xxpor »

GartzenDeHaes wrote: post #194
epiccoleman wrote: post #102

I live in Columbus, and over the next few years I expect a lot of shakeup to occur as a result of the Intel fab(s) being built nearby. It's been interesting to see the turbulence around Intel of late, given what a huge investment we're expecting to see from them in Ohio (not to mention the huge investment the state will be making into Intel, via tax abatements and other incentives).

Intel pulled the same trick in Washington State. After the plant was built and Intel got all the tax incentives and free money, they scaled the plant down to just package chips manufactured overseas.

I wasn't even aware there's an Intel plant here. Where is it?

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#206

Post by GartzenDeHaes »

xxpor wrote: post #204
GartzenDeHaes wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel pulled the same trick in Washington State. After the plant was built and Intel got all the tax incentives and free money, they scaled the plant down to just package chips manufactured overseas.

I wasn't even aware there's an Intel plant here. Where is it?

Dupont, although I think it might be closed now. They tore down some of the buildings four or five years ago.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#207

Post by alpaca128 »

sokoloff wrote: post #11
mschild wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M1 is a good chip, but Macs are expensive. Cheapest one you can currently buy is the Air. That starts at 1k USD pretax. That's not within reach for a large majority of the worlds population. Not even within reach for a lot people in richer western countries. Most people need a Webbrowser that can do Email, Streaming, and some social media. What makes you think windows is in a death spiral? They still have a good…

You can buy an M1 8/256 Air at $800 right now. I'd expect to get 5 years out of it minimum (we're buying one shortly to replace a mid-2013 Air). That's less than $15/month if it gets thrown in a bin in 5 years. It's under $20/mo if we bin it in 3.5 years. https://www.bestbuy.com/site/macbook-air-13-3-laptop-apple-m... I feel like the Chromebook on the lower end is great for a lot of uses/people and the Air is an easi…

> You can buy an M1 8/256 Air at $800 right now. I'd expect to get 5 years out of it minimum

Some people simply do not care about tech to a point where almmost any price is too high. I just had to persuade a relative to spend $250 to replace a 16+ years old Intel Core Duo with an HDD. It takes 2 minutes to open a browser window on that thing and she didn't even consider that a problem. The replacement will probably last until it refuses to boot.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#208

Post by 0zemp2c »

mschild wrote: post #82
mrtksn wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't afford $900 you shouldn't be buying a laptop unless you absolutely need it in short term to get out of your current situation. You are probably in a precarious state, not really a chooser at this time and all you can do is to sort by price and buy the cheapest.

Thats an incredibly privileged view on this. The world doesn't run high paying western salaries. Most people earn significantly less. The average monthly indian salary, by now the largest country in the world population wise, is roundabout 450 USD. Your advice boils down to just get richer and don't be poor.

> Thats an incredibly privileged view on this. The world doesn't run high paying western salaries

but that hurts Intel too...their profit margins are in their high-end CPUs

people keep talking about the cost of Macs but they're cheaper than most Windows laptops...

go look at the HP, Lenovo sites...they're not steering people toward $400 laptops

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#209

Post by lesuorac »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #157
lesuorac wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> capitalism rules supreme and trumps jingoistic nationalism. I'm not so sure about that. At an individual level sure but we're talking about the USG not a bunch of individuals at a national level. The government has made many decisions to subsidies/backstop local companies in the interest of nationalism. There's no way it's cheapest for Boeing to make its airplanes in the US. Janitors for the USG get security cleara…

Deciding to give Intel massive subsidies would require congress to agree and enact legislation, and that isn't happening with it being a politically fractured senate and house. It also isn't exactly sustainable to just keep funneling truckloads of money into Intel to be competitive and kind of pokes a giant hole in the idea that the free market is supreme at solving all problems. In the end subsidies just contribute…

> Deciding to give Intel massive subsidies would require congress to agree and enact legislation, and that isn't happening with it being a politically fractured senate and house.

Eh, sure congress has apparently only passed 1 bill so far this year [1] but you can go look up other split years (i.e. 2013 [2]) as a reference. They actually pass a lot of bills despite what people say and the first 4 months of the session are always slow.

Ohio is a R state so republicans won't bring up deficit issues (not that they actually care about them). Democrats (obviously) voted yes on the CHIPs act last year so its not like they're going to change their mind now. The remaining parties aren't a large enough coalition to matter.

> It also isn't exactly sustainable to just keep funneling truckloads of money into Intel to be competitive

Unless you're going to argue the USG is going to become insolvent prior to Intel finishing the fab in Ohio this is an irrelevant argument. The USG will be around longer than it takes to build a fab and as I brought up in my previous comment; plenty of companies are not competitive on a global scale but they still turn a healthy profit because the USG backstops them.

> In the end subsidies just contribute to rising inflation (it's printing money)

Well, you can subsidize something without printing money. I think printing money causing inflation has been trivial disproven though by the 2019 pandemic where governments printed money like mad and no inflation occurred until years after the fact. Unless of course you want to argue the free markets are so inefficient they took 2-3 years to correct for that money printing?

[1]: https://legiscan.com/US/legislation/2023?type=bill&status=pa... [2]: https://legiscan.com/US/legislation/2013?sort=asc&order=Last...

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#210

Post by kube-system »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #199
kube-system wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the people moving big money on the stock market are not sitting around waiting until earning reports come out to make a move. They already knew intel was going to post a loss, this was not news to the market.

You're not wrong, but I think this misses the point. Even retail knew they were estimated to post a loss. I'm guessing something in the earnings report was "less bad than expected" in order for the stock to be up 5% today?

Yes, the market will often move in the direction of the delta between expectations and actual results.

People often assume it "should" move in the direction of the overall sentiment (good earnings = up, bad earnings = down), but that is not at all true because earnings reports are a retroactive view of information people have already been trading on.

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