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Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

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Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#171

Post by Aromasin »

Aromasin wrote: post #81
zpeti wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stock is up 5% as of posting this, so I think the market already priced in something even worse potentially.

36% down YoY, but they beat investor Q1 consensus. Analysts predicted worse than this, so they've exceeded market expectations. Sapphire Rapids is only just starting to ramp sales, and the Emerald/Granite Rapids & Sierra Forest roadmaps are on track, which is the first time the Xeons have looked healthy in nearly 4 or 5 years. They trimmed the fat by selling off all businesses but their core ones, and are announcing…

Can't edit my comment now, but I just looked at the earnings report and they're actually up $200m on what they forecasted, so that'll be why the stock is up.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#172

Post by qbasic_forever »

epiccoleman wrote: post #159
qbasic_forever wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it. At the end of the day capitalism rules supreme and trumps jingoistic nationalism. If it's cheaper for Apple and others to build chips overseas then all your devices will continue to have chips made there. I don't see any fundamental change to make labor in America competitive with overseas labor costs. Intel can build as many fancy fabs as they want in Ohio but they will be…

Yes, this is a major unsolved problem to my eye. The cost of living in Columbus - while nowhere near the craziness of coastal cities - is steadily rising. Real estate in surrounding cities is also going up, and it's hard for me to imagine how all those working the jobs that will supposedly be created by the fabs will afford to live near them. One development in Ohio has been a proposal for a passenger rail line that…

Yeah I lived in Columbus and other parts of Ohio for 15 years or so and it strikes me as bizarre to try to bring industry back. Rubber, steel, automotive, etc. industries were absolutely massive in the 50's, 60's, 70's. But the corporate raiders of the 80s destroyed and sold off all the factories to replace them with cheaper offshore labor. The cost of living in Ohio only continued to go up and most cities in the state are filled with suburbs full of homes now approaching $500k or more. It's just not sustainable or sane to think some new class of factory workers can jump in and live there while being competitive on labor prices.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#173

Post by steveBK123 »

karmakaze wrote: post #168
steveBK123 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They missed the boat on 2 biggest growth areas: ARM (mobile) & GPU (gaming, crypto, AI), and screwed up x86 (AMD made some better chips / Apple walked away). Screwing 1 of those up is a problem, screwing up all 3 simultaneously is near-bankrupting.

Their development model was 'tick / tock'[0] with the tick being smaller processes, increased frequency, lower-power. All of those are largely outsourced (or outsourceable) to a fab. The tock step was introduction of new microarchitectures. Intel has been historically hit or miss with this, the default is to take what they did and do more of it rather than come up with entirely new and sound designs. I would say for…

Yeah that was their well known dev model for many decades.

However they seem to have missed a number of tick cycles as of late, so their efficiency gap to ARM got worse and worse.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#174

Post by mrtksn »

beefield wrote: post #164
mrtksn wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The screen will be terrible, the performance will be 1/3 of the M1 air, the battery life will be useless and the device itself will be heavy. Bad deal overall. At that price I would prefer a Chromebook.

> performance will be 1/3 of the M1 air I run an old (I think maybe 4 or 5 years) thinkpad with 64GB RAM. I see often these claims of superior performance of new macs, and it leaves me scratching my head. I do not have (almost) any workflows where the performance is not sufficient. For the ones where performance is not sufficient, I am happy to turn on my desktop. So my question is, what are the workflows people have…

The primary thing you notice is the snappiness. It's like going from an HDD to SDD. Everything happens faster.

Beyond that, it depends on what you do.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#175

Post by Arrath »

damagednoob wrote: post #33
itsoktocry wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> losing market share every year for a decade (Microsoft doesn't even seem to care afaict) Of course they care. Windows, at one point, had 95% market share. Do you believe that to be sustainable? Do we want that? No, in both cases. They are still dominant in desktop computing. > offers 10x the performance the average person will need Why is buying something 10x more powerful than you'd need at 2x the price "good valu…

> Why is buying something 10x more powerful than you'd need at 2x the price "good value"? I would argue in the same way that buying an expensive pair of boots that last longer than a cheap pair to be good value. > You should have a look at Windows' desktop market share and get back to us. They still own the space. What is the trend line and how much is that space growing by relative to other devices like mobile phone…

> I would argue in the same way that buying an expensive pair of boots that last longer than a cheap pair to be good value.

While a fair argument, I think its also fair to counter that the conditions in which you may use your boots don't arbitrarily change and get less efficient and more difficult over time. Sure maybe sometimes you'll be hiking through mud but that will dry out and get back to normal, whereas software might turn into quicksand as hardware gets older. Future proofing your hardware is effective, but only to a point.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#176

Post by irisgrunn »

bane wrote: post #116

Intel and Google share surprisingly similar problems: an almost pathological inability to grow lines of business with new products because they kill them off too early. In Intel's case, it's even worse, they kill them off right before the market would have made them successful. They should own the "things with semiconductors" market, but instead financially engineered their way to focus only on higher profit core chi…

This is incredibly similar to what's happening (has happened) to Philips.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#177

Post by mike_hearn »

bane wrote: post #137
formerly_proven wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel got out of memory when that became a complete commodity, similarly Intel sold their NAND business (now called Solidigm) a while ago to Hynix, because similarly NAND and SSDs are now commodities (in the sense of highly standardized, interchangeable product made by a large number of competing companies). It does make sense if you only wish to keep things where your company has unique advantages and doesn't need t…

You are absolutely correct in the history to my recollection. But I'd challenge that it was a good idea as having multiple product lines better creates opportunities for new and unique products in different spaces. Optane is an example of where Intel tried to "fake it" but ended up producing a confused product that didn't leverage common industry knowledge in either the memory or solid state storage spaces. More towa…

How did Optane represent faking it? It was and still is the fastest persistent storage ever made, no? I thought they killed it because of the difficulty of manufacturing it.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#178

Post by 0zemp2c »

whynotmaybe wrote: post #25
blagie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What makes you think windows is in a death spiral? They still have a good 75% market share and while that fluctuates, it doesn't seem to really drastically decrease. Of what? Most of what I see normal consumers doing is in Android, typically on ARM. I think my observations are a little biased, but not a lot. According to statcounter: Android 41.56% Windows 28.29% iOS 17.29% OS X 7% Unknown 3.05% Chrome OS 1.32% Cri…

The "niche" market is corporate and gouv. These industries won't buy macs as they are too expensive to maintain and to integrate into their existing active directory domains. (With a few exceptions for jobs where the Mac is the optimal device like graphic design) No idea about percentage but windows won't disappear soon from those. The android market share is mainly mobile devices and Microsoft gave that market up a…

> Windows is here to stay, just like mainframes.

but if it continues to shrink (and it almost certainly will), then Intel (and AMD) are in big trouble

Intel can't exist servicing a niche

IBM isn't trying to float a multibillion market cap solely on the back of their mainframe CPUs...

and of course let's not forget that Microsoft is also continuing to hint at future Windows-on-ARM...the first try failed but I have heard more talk...

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#179

Post by dehrmann »

steveBK123 wrote: post #111
jl6 wrote: post #50

I find it kind of amazing that Intel haven't found a way to profit during the global chip shortage. Look at food and energy over the past year or so: supermarket and oil & gas companies are posting record profits. They are riding the wave of price rises and supply constraints. What's different about CPUs?

They missed the boat on 2 biggest growth areas: ARM (mobile) & GPU (gaming, crypto, AI), and screwed up x86 (AMD made some better chips / Apple walked away). Screwing 1 of those up is a problem, screwing up all 3 simultaneously is near-bankrupting.

> AMD made some better chips / Apple walked away

This means Intel didn't lose Apple just because of execution because Apple could have trivially gone to AMD.

Re: Intel posts largest loss in its history as sales plunge

#180

Post by 0zemp2c »

selectodude wrote: post #163
0zemp2c wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course they care. for the last ten years Microsoft has pushed all of its effort into Azure, which is coincidentally based on Linux (!) accept it, they gave up on Windows. Windows 11 is my proof...a lame re-skinning which can't even displace Windows 10 > You should have a look at Windows' desktop market share and get back to us. They still own the space. no one under 25 uses Windows! Go look at any college classr…

I am a lifelong Mac user. My work laptop is Windows. Always has been, always will be. My employer probably buys more computers every week than I will buy in my entire life. Nobody in the space gives a crap what laptops people buy for personal use once every 5-7 years.

> Nobody in the space gives a crap what laptops people buy for personal use once every 5-7 years.

maybe they don't, but Intel should

btw my employer (Fortune 100 co) has switched to deploying Macs and will probably deploy close to 100k, all the Windows laptops are being timed out

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