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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#831

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I am. That guy (and everyone else involved) probably has ten times blood on his hands as a result of "wE doN't need TO CarE aBOUT REaR vIsIBILITY BeCaUsE we have a BACKup CaMERa" engineering and touch screen distractions than he's saved by getting backup cameras put in things. Backup cameras are the unholy trinity of upper middle class moral panic and shirking of responsibility, government Doing Something (TM) a…

You can put duct tape over your federally mandated backup camera display if you really believe they're so distracting that they cause you to run over more people in reverse. But maybe you should just stay off the road instead, so you have less blood on your own hands.

>You can put duct tape over your federally mandated backup camera display if you really believe they're so distracting that they cause you to run over more people in reverse.

>But maybe you should just stay off the road instead, so you have less blood on your own hands.

Tape won't undo all the other changes to cars that OEMs engaged in once they were required to have a screen.

Congratulations. Your pet regulatory change has reduced back over deaths by under a hundred a year. In a vacuum with spherical cow that's great but reality isn't a vacuum with spherical cows. And now that you've put this hardware in cars and engineers have taken advantage of it you've increased back out accidents and merging accidents (both are inversely correlated with rear visibility) and you've made many of the critical 2nd order functions of operating a car less intuitive and more distracting to use. You've but you don't care about that because the metric you were gaming (back over deaths) is marginally improved. And when called out by people who want to look at the big picture you respond with insults. Screw you and the safety vest you rode in on.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can immediately think of several situations where that is not at all possible to do. Construction, cliff roads, country roads, etc. Tesla are unsafe death traps by design.

> Tesla are unsafe death traps by design. This is completely untrue by third party metrics (both governmental and not).

They meet crash standards, yes. But the interior design of them encourages unsafe driving. Between putting almost everything inside a touch screen and pushing autopilot (which encourages drivers to pay attention less), they are creating more distractions from controlling their 2-ton metal boxes.

Drivers are licensed operators of heavy machinery that travels at high speed. Let's not encourage systems that turn us into more dangerous operators.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#833

I wouldn't mind touchscreens as long as these imbecile developers would strictly limit UI response time to under 16ms. In no world where you're barrelling 3,000+ lbs of mass at tens of miles an hour should you be distracted by some moronic app or subsystem failing to respond in time because it was written by under-experienced software "engineers." Any software running as a part of a motor vehicle should be federally…

"So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. You've just removed one problem. "

At least for me, response time isn't the issue. It's being able to reach without looking, feel the position of the button I want in relationship to other buttons, and then press it and get the desired results. That is something that can't be duplicated with a touch screen, particularly one on which the button I want isn't on the very top level.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#835
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. No, that's wrong. Problem with touchscreens is that (1) you need to look at them and (2) there is no tactile feedback of whether you pressed it or not and (3) you need to hover your arm in a moving car at just the right spot. Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems. If the ac…

Our Subaru has a physical volume knob. Its position is only a "gentle suggestion" to the software to move volume up or down. At times, especially when starting the vehicle, there is major latency in the software processing the knob movement.. Also, if the knob is moved too fast, the sw gets the wrong reading. This results in volume being way too high for serveral seconds as well as many other frustrating, dangerous s…

This seems to be the head of the Subaru thread.

If you have any hope at all for Subaru to get better at software development, abandon it here. Subaru is a high watermark in my career for:

- "us-vs-them" fighting between "IT" and "Business"

- Siloing of teams within IT

- Team bloat / retention of non-operative team members

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#836

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which would have never happened if the car had normal physical controls for that function. Mine has a little rocker on the wiper stalk.

If you know ahead of time how to do it. If you are in a new car, discovering which of 12 different switches, knobs, and dials adjusts the wiper speed is somewhat baffling. I always spend 5 minutes in a new rental car trying to memorize how to do this, but if it's been a couple days since I rented the car and I'm trying to do it for the first time, it is not something that I try to attempt to adjust while still on the…

Sure. But for physical controls it's generally easy to discover as well. Indeed it only takes a few minutes in an unfamiliar car, after which it's easy to use the controls with at most a passing glance.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#837
post #802

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i'm dropping my subaru for this among other reasons. 1. throttle response, move your foot to 20% and experience between no throttle and wide open as the 'turbos' kick in in my outback 2. every time we get near an intersection with bollards, it thinks it's a kid and slams on the brakes 3. you're not allowed to persist auto start disabling 4. you will be nagged for looking anywhere other than dead straight, especially…

Subaru was awesome. The cvt, the ridiculous headsets, and thin paint mean this 18 xt forester is sadly my last one I think. The 5 speed outback sport I had before was absolutely a joy to drive.

I quite like the CVT, but yeah my Outback paint is pretty much not up to the task of protecting from the Aussie sun, the branches and nuts that fall out of the, and birds and bats that poop all over it. I actually like cars that look nice but I'm now almost at the state of mind as long as it stops the body from rusting it is good enough.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#838

With. A. Passion. Other touch screens (or similar things) I dislike: - the controls on my stove top - the controls on my monitor - the controls on my tv - the controls on my thermostat - probably more All of these should have physical buttons for the limited number of functions required. Or, at a minimum, for navigation and confirmation. Touch screens there suck. My wife's car has a touch screen on the control/infota…

> - the controls on my stove top How were these stove-top touch-buttons ever considered an upgrade to their predecessor? They always have no feedback, or that annoyingly high "beep" feedback. They are always slow to respond. They typically use only two or three buttons to control the actual temperature, forcing you to select location first, which is typically slow and terrible as well. Nobody in their right mind can…

It was never about an upgrade.

Touchscreen is fancier, looking and cheaper to make them buttons or knobs.

It’s just cost it always was. They made it shiny, so you thought it was better.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#839
post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compounding this on a touchscreen is slippage. Cars can be bumpy. If you slip and hit the wrong control it can take an unacceptably large amount of concentration (given what you are meant to be actually concentrating on when driving) to work out where you are now, how to get back to where you are, and try to do the original thing again. A few seconds of confusion and distraction is more than enough to kill. Tactile b…

Indeed, a big beef for me is trying to get to a "Input Source" menu in my Honda. I just want to change from Bluetooth (Spotify to FM radio). Tiny field, not an obvious button, hard to hit while moving. Takes way too much time or effort. Meanwhile trying to do it in my wife's Mazda 3? Just press the big FM button, can't miss it, and can feel for it. Repeat ad infinitum for other functions. The touchscreen is great for…

My 2005 Honda Accord gets this right (big, obvious buttons). Definitely not looking forward to finding a car whose UX doesn't suck when this one finally kicks the bucket.
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