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Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#741

Post by bdavbdav »

roland35 wrote: post #21
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #15

"Although they look fancy, Farah said that carmakers can purchase screens for less than $50, making them significantly less expensive than tactile controls."

Having designed electronics, I absolutely appreciate how much a pain in the butt buttons are (maybe that's why they are called buttons!). It isn't just the cost... Each button requires mechanical design and tooling, graphics, manufacturing, etc etc. Plus no one is ever satisfied with the "feel" or tactical properties. But as a driver I absolutely hate touchscreens! Funniest button story.. one time we were working on…

I think no one is ever satisfied with the "feel" in cheaper cars. The BMW iDrive controller feels fantastic to use, as does the Audi MMI (to a slightly lesser extent) (...before they canned it)

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#742

Post by jmkni »

izacus wrote: post #304
joppy wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mazda software works ok with the wheel, but using something like CarPlay with it is almost impossible without taking your eyes off the road for a long time. It’s worse than touch-screens in that respect: what will the spinning knob select next on a screen which has three separate panes?

Is CarPlay really that terrible? I don't have issues using Android Auto easily with my Mazda, it all takes a few very learnable clicks.

I have no issues with it in my Mazda3 on iOS, it’s all muscle memory, and Siri isn’t even that terrible once you learn the most effective commands.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#743

Post by jclardy »

bradgessler wrote: post #413
jjav wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what? You've got physical buttons? Big whoop. That physical button that takes 500ms to respond is still as dangerous. No, that's wrong. Problem with touchscreens is that (1) you need to look at them and (2) there is no tactile feedback of whether you pressed it or not and (3) you need to hover your arm in a moving car at just the right spot. Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems. If the ac…

> Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems > Given that with a physical button you didn't have to take your eyes off the road and given the tactile feedback you know for sure you activated/pressed/moved the control I never understand the "you don't have to look at buttons" argument—my car has lots of physical buttons and to push them, I briefly have to look at the console, find the button, and pre…

Yeah - I do wonder if a giant touchscreen with permanent controls (Zero context switching) could be nearly as effective as a climate panel with fixed buttons. Part of the issue of a touchscreen in a car today is that every single view is context dependent, whereas a physical volume knob is always in the same spot, performing the same singular function.

My chevy has fixed buttons/knobs, but the only one I don't have to look for is the volume knob. There are too many climate buttons that I use maybe once every two weeks for me to gain any muscle memory from pressing them.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#744

Post by bdavbdav »

diziet wrote: post #48
aikinai wrote: post #47

Someone should do something like this smart knob[0]. It looks incredible. [0] https://youtu.be/ip641WmY4pA?t=58

The BMW X-Drive controller is somewhat similar with additional up/down/left/right buttons

Yep - very similar. You can navigate huge lists by spinning it fast and it freewheels. Its a pretty nicely designed interface.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#745

Post by lifeisstillgood »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #535
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We completely understand - and we would all make the same decision. Which is why (in the UK) I view the rise of strikes and unions positively - workers need to hang together - set standards that they won't go below, and also ensure the spoils are fairly shared out. Recently the deputy governor of the bank of england said "inflation has made everyone poorer - get used to it not ask for wage increases". Which tone deaf…

>"inflation has made everyone poorer - get used to it not ask for wage increases" Which is absolutely horseshit, because the European countries that had the least amount of inflation (besides the super wealthy Switzerland and Luxembourg), were the countries where salaries are automatically indexed with inflation, like Belgium. So it turns out that forcing companies to increase wages by inflation is a very effective d…

I did not realise there were any countries doing index linked salaries.

Nice idea

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#746

Post by bdavbdav »

bedobi wrote: post #89

Audi have some very recent cars that are completely screen free - they have a screen which completely retracts into the dashboard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_F2dpj5Kas&t=42s and if you have analog gauges too, there are no screens. (except the tiny one between the gauges which doesn't count imo) They're also completely piano black free. Best car interior maybe ever. Thread here https://old.reddit.com/r/Audi/comm…

Unfortunately these ones arent the recent ones (that A3 has been gone for a couple of years). They went from these style screens with MMI controllers in the centre, but if you buy an A4 or better now, you get 2 touchscreens and no tactile controls for climate etc sadly.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#747

Post by Spooky23 »

to11mtm wrote: post #706
chrisan wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly that is a problem with Subaru (and Honda from someone else?) and not physical buttons themselves. Just because some vehicles have a piss poor implementation doesn't mean the idea of physical is wrong. I have a 2015/16 Ford and Chevy with the infotainment screens - both have physical buttons and both respond instantly to my changes. They also both have an additional volume control on the steering wheel itself…

My 22 Ford has problems with the volume. Sometimes it just keeps pumping to max and you have to fight with it for up to 30 seconds as it's blasting your ears out. That's kinda the problem; these 'Infotainment' systems keep getting upgraded/etc for marketing purposes but don't have enough care put in the upgrades to make sure stuff works right. "Move Fast and Break things" is not a good motto for anything that does in…

The problem with cars is that’s it’s move slow and break things.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#748

Post by galangalalgol »

Archelaos wrote: post #575
TheFragenTaken wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that these cars pass safety certification, makes me question certifiers. It's illegal to look at your phone while driving, for good reason, but it's legal to fiddle with a damn computer screen, because it's part of the car. I predict it's a matter of time before we'll see a correlation between number of crashes, and cars with touchscreens.

> but it's legal to fiddle with a damn computer screen, because it's part of the car. In Germany it is only legal to operate a touch screen while driving for essential functions with only a brief glance. For example, a judgement was handed down against a Tesla driver who tried to switch up the interval of the windscreen wiper via touchscreen and ran off the road in the process. Source: https://www.burhoff.de/asp_weit…

I didn't believe it could be that nad, but I looked up the video at Tesla and you really have to go to the touchscreen to speed up the wiper. That should absolutely be illegal. Does it have some autosense feature so that you usually don't have to ise it?

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#749

Post by [deleted] »

exabrial wrote: post #17

Pro Tip: So do ER Doctors and Insurance Companies. What would be best is something along the lines of a hybrid aircraft controls. See F/A-18 Hornet cockpit. Basically tactile buttons around the perimeter (maybe just side or bottom for consumer), but the options can change. Also for consumers, touchscreen should be a value-add to tactile controls, with hardware buttons as primary. So you could touch-scroll with a fing…

[deleted]

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#750

Post by red-iron-pine »

hnick wrote: post #513
Xelbair wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not about 'looking and pushing' the button. It's about stateful UI. physical layout of buttons is usually stateless - press button thing turns on, press it again it turns off. You don't need to think in which menu you are, and where to press, while driving.

Compounding this on a touchscreen is slippage. Cars can be bumpy. If you slip and hit the wrong control it can take an unacceptably large amount of concentration (given what you are meant to be actually concentrating on when driving) to work out where you are now, how to get back to where you are, and try to do the original thing again. A few seconds of confusion and distraction is more than enough to kill. Tactile b…

Indeed, a big beef for me is trying to get to a "Input Source" menu in my Honda. I just want to change from Bluetooth (Spotify to FM radio).

Tiny field, not an obvious button, hard to hit while moving. Takes way too much time or effort. Meanwhile trying to do it in my wife's Mazda 3? Just press the big FM button, can't miss it, and can feel for it.

Repeat ad infinitum for other functions. The touchscreen is great for when I'm in the driveway and want to change settings but otherwise terrible for everything else.

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