Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens • Hacker News Board

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#801

Post by rootusrootus » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:10 PM UTC

jojobas wrote: post #272

naikrovek wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You still have to look to find where to press. With real buttons, you can find the right button purely with tactile feedback, as well. that's not a given at all. maybe for computer keyboards I guess, but not for cars. car makers always seem to want buttons to be flush with their surroundings and have no bumps or dips on them to help you find the button you're after. I always have to look for the button if it isn't…

I just checked and I could reach and operate aircon knobs (3x), radio volume and phone answer/hangup buttons without looking, fast. Granted most of these are on the wheel, but even aircon controls would be a no go on a touchscreen.

IMO there's a lot to be said for a well done knob. It sticks out, so is easy to find with your hand without having to search. As long as you don't have so many that it can be ambiguous. I'm a fan of the climate knobs on my F250, which for example turn the temperature up and down incrementally, but it has a momentary switch at the end of the travel so you can just spin it until it hits that, then spin just a little more against the switch and it'll turn the entire climate system in max heating or max cooling.

I remember the first time everyone decided we should have buttons for volume instead of knobs. Thankfully that lesson was learned. Now we do the same for touchscreens. They have their moments, but knobs and well-designed buttons are not replaceable with a touchscreen. No matter how much haptic feedback it might have.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#802

Post by bfrog » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:11 PM UTC

hasmolo wrote: post #661

acapybara wrote: post #647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our Subaru has a physical volume knob. Its position is only a "gentle suggestion" to the software to move volume up or down. At times, especially when starting the vehicle, there is major latency in the software processing the knob movement.. Also, if the knob is moved too fast, the sw gets the wrong reading. This results in volume being way too high for serveral seconds as well as many other frustrating, dangerous s…

i'm dropping my subaru for this among other reasons. 1. throttle response, move your foot to 20% and experience between no throttle and wide open as the 'turbos' kick in in my outback 2. every time we get near an intersection with bollards, it thinks it's a kid and slams on the brakes 3. you're not allowed to persist auto start disabling 4. you will be nagged for looking anywhere other than dead straight, especially…

Subaru was awesome. The cvt, the ridiculous headsets, and thin paint mean this 18 xt forester is sadly my last one I think.

The 5 speed outback sport I had before was absolutely a joy to drive.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#803

Post by Slava_Propanei » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:12 PM UTC

kasey_junk wrote: post #707

hasmolo wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm dropping my subaru for this among other reasons. 1. throttle response, move your foot to 20% and experience between no throttle and wide open as the 'turbos' kick in in my outback 2. every time we get near an intersection with bollards, it thinks it's a kid and slams on the brakes 3. you're not allowed to persist auto start disabling 4. you will be nagged for looking anywhere other than dead straight, especially…

I thought 3 was federal law and was universal amongst US cars. I personally don’t mind it, but thought it was indicative of how unpopular that feature was when a software update moved the disable button to my Subaru’s dock. FWIW my Subaru doesn’t experience the other issues mentioned besides 1 & 5. 1 is like any turbo I’ve driven before so maybe my expectations are off but 5 is crazy annoying.

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#804

Post by sar009 » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:14 PM UTC

there are only 2 use case for digital screen in a car 1. help driver see while reversing 2. navigation

and only one use case for touch-screen 1. navigation

Other than that every use cases can be fulfilled by physical buttons. There is certainly no use case for a 16 inch screen.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#805

Post by Slava_Propanei » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:14 PM UTC

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Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#806

Post by clnq » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:15 PM UTC

pySSK wrote: post #398

clnq wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our car UX is becoming terrible for both touchscreens and physical controls. It could benefit from simplification a lot, and I think Tesla had many good ideas, even if they might have over-committed to the touchscreen. For example, VW cars often have multiple knobs and buttons just for controlling the AC, which is far too complicated. If the car is electric, one might also need to put it into a regular mode (non-eco)…

This has a lot to do with cultural preferences. German customers demand and expect complex multi-level menus. VW has a small UX team in Belmont where they simplify UIs for the American market.

Thanks for the insight, it would be very interesting to see some company's UX guidelines for the two markets.

I've heard that Americans prioritize comfort and practicality in their cars while Germans prefer control and performance. But I always assumed that individual preferences vary so much that any overall correlations to region would be weak. For example, I hail from Central Europe, but strongly prefer the Tesla aesthetic, even if I am not a fan of touchscreening everything.

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#807

Post by martyvis » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:16 PM UTC

phpisthebest wrote: post #620

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The judgement should have been against tesla, not the customer. Wipers are essential and should not require fiddling

Sounds like the driver was attempting to adjust non-critical features of wipers not turning them off and on We should be very careful not to include the kitchen sink in with "essential" items. Turning the wipers off and on, is critical, adjusting delay timings is not

Maybe your rain is different from the rain where I live. Being able to adjust speeds is critical so I get maximum vision with minimum distraction

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#808

Post by mitchdoogle » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:16 PM UTC

tp34 wrote: post #573

bradgessler wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Physical buttons cleanly resolve all of these major problems > Given that with a physical button you didn't have to take your eyes off the road and given the tactile feedback you know for sure you activated/pressed/moved the control I never understand the "you don't have to look at buttons" argument—my car has lots of physical buttons and to push them, I briefly have to look at the console, find the button, and pre…

Do you need to look at your computer mouse to "click" the button(s)? Assuming you possess this basic competence, I find myself wondering how you managed to purchase a vehicle with such absurd ergonomics. You have a strange, poorly designed vehicle This "big dashboard full of buttons." Please provide a picture. Is this a custom design? "For me, when things get dangerous, its [sic] when pressing the button (physical or…

These are all the controls that I use while driving, and these are pretty consistent for other cars I've driven (these are just off top of my head - I'm sure there would be more if I looked). And my car is fairly old at this point. I've driven newer rental cars that have a lot of extra features.

- Climate Control: -- A/C On -- Circulate / Outside Air -- Temperature Up -- Temperature Down -- Fan Speed Up -- Fan Speed Down -- Dual Mode -- Dual Mode Controls ( 4 buttons - Repeat the temp/fan buttons for passenger side) -- Front Defrost -- Rear Defrost

- Lights: -- Headlight mode -- Light dimmer -- Brights on/off -- Foglights on/off -- Flashers on/off

- Driving -- Gear Shift -- Turn Signal -- Cruise Control --- On/Off --- Set/+ --- Resume/- -- ESC (Electronic Stability Control) on/off -- Tripometer / info - check mileage to empty / range / etc

- Wipers -- wiper speed -- spray -- rear wipers --- spray

- Entertainment -- On/Off -- Volume Up -- Volume Down -- Mode (Switch between radio/android auto/sirius/etc) -- Next / Radio Tuner Up -- Previous / Radio Tuner Down -- Radio Presets (6 buttons) -- Play/Pause

- Calling / Voice -- Initiate Voice Command -- Answer call -- Hang up / Decline call

- Mirrors -- side mirror switch left/right -- side mirror adjust

- Windows -- front driver window up/down -- front passenger window up/down -- rear driver window up/down -- rear passenger window up/down -- window lock

- Locks -- lock/unlock

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#809

Post by martyvis » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:18 PM UTC

naravara wrote: post #769

randallsquared wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shortening a delay timing has the same effect as turning the wiper on in some rain conditions.

I can't help but feel like we've made a mistake by concentrating so many of the people who design our standard software UX patterns in California. From Tesla designing car interfaces that don't understand how wipers need to work to Apple designing weather apps that don't clearly communicate wind chill to smartphones that require use of the touchscreen to answer a phone call rendering it impossible to answer while wea…

This is comedy gold!

Re: Automakers are starting to admit that drivers hate touchscreens

#810

Post by seanmcdirmid » Thu, Apr 27, 2023, 2:18 PM UTC

tirpen wrote: post #493

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot the knobs and buttons these days are digital anyways. So there is no real tactile feedback, since they are just activating some digital function anyways.

The knob still exists as a physical thing between in your fingers. You can feel it turn, you feel how much you've turned it, you feel the little clicks if it has those, you feel if you turn it into an extreme position. That's what tactile feedback is. It doesn't matter if the knob is connected to a digital or analog circuit. It has tactile feedback either way.

You don’t get resistance when you turn the knob all the way up or down. You don’t get confirmation that the button you pressed did something. It’s tactile in the sense that they are physical, but otherwise not a great experience.