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On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

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Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#221

Post by FredPret »

schroeding wrote: post #193
mhh__ wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if compounds count, it's almost a spelling convention as much as it is truly new language

I would say so, compound words are a defining feature of the German language, especially with the ability to make up words on the spot if required ("Gelegenheitsbildung"). Many of the words in the article are also compound words (e.g. "Spätkauf", "Rundfunk"). It's not possible to say the same thing without using compound words without heavily modifying the sentence structure. It would be in English, if you translate…

English is the same, just with spaces in between. Lumping ten nouns together for a mega compound noun can be useful but it isn't what I originally meant.

I meant English is flexible in the way it absorbs and digests foreign words and makes them sound and feel like natural parts of English.

It's uniquely good for engineering and science terms. For instance, if I try to translate a term like Random Access Memory to my native language, it just sounds dumb and doesn't tell you what it is.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#222

Post by secondcoming »

ben_w wrote: post #210
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ireland (fear I might get blamed personally for the stupid done by British politicians, and the UK Gov was being loudly stupid about Ireland at the time Just to be clear, this basically would never happen with most people. Now, the North of Ireland (the part still in the UK) might be a little different, but most Irish (i.e. republic) people couldn't give two sh*ts about where you're from as long as you're good crai…

I assume people are much the same everywhere — 80% fantastic, 10% arseholes, 10% lizardman constant. But with headlines like this, and a somewhat-posh English accent, I didn't want to risk either of those 10s: https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/fury-at-torys-call-to-th... In retrospect it would've been fine, but I had to guess in advance the UK wasn't going to actually try that, and they kinda have a history there…

Mate, I wouldn't worry about it. In Ireland you'd be fine, no different from someone in Scotland ranting at you about the Tories.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#223

Post by MandieD »

anditherobot wrote: post #198
bolanyo wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is unreasonable to live permanently in a country without speaking the local language But what if there are countries where the 'local language' eventually becomes like Irish in Ireland? Everyone who goes to school in the Republic of Ireland will learn some Irish at school. Almost every Irish person will know some Irish expressions, Irish songs, and be aware of Irish-language culture and literature as well as Eng…

Will English supplant Dutch and German in a few generations? In a way they are related, is it why people from those countries pick it up so easily? Like kids growing up in metropolitan areas immersed in English only environments

It might feel that way if your main experience of Germany is Berlin, but is not a risk for any of the rest of the country, including Munich with its fairly strong English-speaking expat community - Germans speak German to each other, and will politely ask you, the non-German, if it's ok to continue the meeting in German, but expect you to at least attempt to learn it.

I've not spent enough time in the Netherlands to speak to Dutch's future, but a big difference I can see is television and movies, even on streaming services: popular US shows are dubbed into German and it takes a bit of doing to get some of them with the original English soundtracks; Dutch has long been a target for subbing.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#224

Post by Ligma123 »

bolanyo wrote: post #184
friendlyHornet wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is talk of dropping this requirement, but I'll believe it when I see it. I really hope it doesn't get dropped; it is unreasonable to live permanently in a country without speaking the local language There are other types of residencies available if someone is an expat and doesn't plan on staying permanently And it's not like they're asking for a high fluency; with B1, you can barely hold a simple coherent con…

> it is unreasonable to live permanently in a country without speaking the local language But what if there are countries where the 'local language' eventually becomes like Irish in Ireland? Everyone who goes to school in the Republic of Ireland will learn some Irish at school. Almost every Irish person will know some Irish expressions, Irish songs, and be aware of Irish-language culture and literature as well as Eng…

>If local culture is still preserved, taught and celebrated, is a really a problem?

Yes because it won't be really preserved if you don't have speakers who use it as their main language since nothing new will be created, just relics of the past that will slowly be lost.

Most people other than highly-cosmopolitan minorities don't think they should lose their language, which is so deeply tied with how we even process our understanding of the world, by mapping concepts to words, with their culture and identity, just to make it easier for foreigners who can't be bothered to learn the local language.

The problem is that the minority is way more vocal and has more influencing power.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#226

Post by actionfromafar »

te_chris wrote: post #220
actionfromafar wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the "joke" was that expats are white, immigrants are not?

Definitely true on the whole, but perhaps identity is not the most productive lens to look through. As a white expat/immigrant to the UK, I think it's more about whether you've committed to never returning. It's a very different mindset I find, between those who've moved and are staying put, vs those with the idea of leaving in the back of their minds. The privilege of the expat is being able to hedge for a very long…

Still "immigrants" get accused of hedging their bets while still not afforded the "expat" moniker.

"Immigrants won't commit to their new country"

"They move their wealth abroad" etc.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#227

Post by secondcoming »

derriz wrote: post #145
nologic01 wrote: post #92

Global English is both a blessing and a curse. Never before could so many people communicate across linguistic divides (even if imperfectly). But the price is that never before was the rich collective cultural heritage under such threat. The two facets are deeply related. Like any lingua franca before, global English was invented to facilitate trade (economic exchange). The fact that it is English and not Basque or S…

This is perhaps nitpicking but I wish non-native English speakers would not use the term “Anglo-Saxon” to describe anglophone or (better) English speaking countries. The term refers to the original north Germanic invaders of England and so has tribal (racial) connotations and is typically used in English to distinguish people on that basis. Many/most Americans (e.g. black or Native American) so not consider themselve…

> I wish non-native English speakers would not use the term “Anglo-Saxon”

I quite like it and find it endearing. I'm definitely not of actual Anglo-Saxon stock but if non-English use that term then they're free to do so. Everyone knows what they mean. There are zero racial overtones associated with it.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#228

Post by bhangrrathwy »

b800h wrote: post #13

We have a number of Indian-language radio stations in the UK, which are good to listen to because the music is often great. Part of the fun is spotting the odd anglicism creep in: "that's not cricket!"

Is the music Hindi or Punjabi? (Or both, there is a spectrum of sorts between Hindi/urdu with Punjabi influence to "pure" Punjabi)

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#229

Post by fransje26 »

robin_reala wrote: post #58
skrebbel wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come to Holland! It's basically Belgium with better frontyards and nicer cops.

Belgium wins on the beer and frites front though.

Belgium wins on the entire food front. By knockout.

Re: On the unexpected joys of Denglisch, Berlinglish and global Englisch

#230

Post by bhangrrathwy »

avh02 wrote: post #148
b800h wrote: post #13

We have a number of Indian-language radio stations in the UK, which are good to listen to because the music is often great. Part of the fun is spotting the odd anglicism creep in: "that's not cricket!"

i remember something similar in Dubai, while riding in a taxi hearing the driver listening to the commentary on a cricket game: very fast/excitedly: "OUT OF THIS FIELD!!" I think code switching is often a really cool/cute thing but also cringey sometimes.

"Jargon" terms tend to not often have translations in other languages I think.
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