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Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

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Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#161

Post by matheusmoreira »

xinayder wrote: post #158
matheusmoreira wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, are they wrong? When we filter out all the noise, that's what it comes down to. Are they wrong? > They found a couple of issues in the last year which had no impact on the election and wouldn't have. "A couple of issues" ? Does the voting machine software's build system NOT download unaudited proprietary manufacturer shared objects from the internet? Because that's the conclusion I came to after I read that doc…

https://www.gov.br/defesa/pt-br/centrais-de-conteudo/relator... they said they couldn't point to any security risks that would invalidate the whole process. I would like to read more about these findings, I can't find them anywhere and feel like I can only find them in alternative media sites.

Read the actual armed forces report. Would you like me to upload it somewhere?

Page 4, they recommend that access be given to the libraries referenced by the code. In other words, those libaries weren't audited.

Page 5, they say they noticed that the internet was accessed during the software compilation process for the purpose of downloading third party libraries. They outright say that this is an attack vector.

The rest of the document more or less verifies that everything is as expected after the final binary has been cryptographically signed. This is expected, any tampering necessarily occurred before the binary was signed.

Auditing source code doesn't matter given the nature of the attack vector. Protesters asking for source code will be embarrassed when they publish it and nothing is found. I'll only be satisfied if they publish the actual signed binary which ran on every machine on election day, the whole world looks at it with reverse engineering tools and finds nothing. Then I'll accept brazilian elections as legitimate.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#162

Post by marcinzm »

esperent wrote: post #143
sofixa wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the UAE a Russian ally is a massive stretch. They're not allied with the US nor Russia, they're allied with their big neighbours, Saudi Arabia, and have good relationships with many important countries (US, Russia, India, etc.) but don't follow anyone's line (outside of Saudi Arabia and it cost them dearly in Yemen, so they probably don't anymore) near-automatically. Lots of Russians in the UAE, including run…

> Calling the UAE a Russian ally is a massive stretch. No, it is not. Of course they look out for themselves first. However, in this time of war and international sanctions they are one of the countries who are deepening their ties with Russia. They are spending a lot of money on PR to make it seem like they are on the side of the west, but in actual fact they have been profiting massively from Russia over the last f…

Yes, that's what it means to not be on anyone's side, you take advantage of whomever is most desperate to make money from them (Russia right now). Then switch to doing the same from the other side if the tides change.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#163

Post by rafaelrc »

epups wrote: post #146
TheDong wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that context helps. To quote: > The company told the police that the groups had been deleted and that it could not recover the data. The judge's order to suspend telegram is because they did not comply, which apparently saying "that data does not exist" is not complying. If "No, we cannot give you that data" is grounds for this sort of action, that sounds an awful lot like "companies cannot delete or…

Telegram has a long history of obfuscation when it comes to court orders. In Brazil, they simply ignored previous court orders until they were banned. They played a similar trick in Germany too, and backed down after heavy fines: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-takes-on-telegram-to-fight-ext... So, I wouldn't take anything they say at face value. It's not only about giving out the information they have on these individ…

They did not "simply ignore" the court order. They did give the data they had, thats being all info about the groups owner. Furthermore, the court asked for info such as CPF number, home address and Bank account information. How the hell is this reasonable? Furthermore, if you just blocked every platform just because it "had nazis on it", or even better, any kind of criminal group, hell, you should just block the whole damn internet already.

Source: the court order (in Portuguese) https://static.poder360.com.br/2023/04/decisao-telegram-grup...

For non-Brazilians, that is a document in Brazil that almost everyone has, and is the most commonly used to identify you. But Telegram never asks you for it.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#164

Post by matheusmoreira »

smcl wrote: post #148
matheusmoreira wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, I just don't care. To me they're both synonymous with misery, famine, rationing, forced labor under penalty of death and mass genocide when people inevitably revolt. If people are so big on banning destructive ideologies, one would think they'd start with this one. Since these communists are allowed to walk the soil of my country unimpeded and not only hold political office but have literal organized undeniab…

What I think is that you know just enough history to be able to loosely connect the word "socialism" with Bad Things (common ones being that both NSDAP and USSR had "socialist" in their name, or that Venezuela is "socialist") and you're incurious enough ("I know, I just don't care") to not bother understanding whether that's true, how any of those Bad Things actually came to be, whether that was due to anything relat…

I wasn't about to give socialists the benefit of the doubt, especially not in this thread where people actually created sockpuppet accounts just to call me a "bolsonaro minion" who needs to move to Afghanistan. You seem to be posting in good faith though.

I believe socialism inevitably leads to oppressive totalitarian states. Simply because nobody wants to work for no reward. People must be forced into such slavery and that's inevitably what happens. It's what's happened every time it was tried. Because the alternative is starvation.

The only way that could possibly work is if nobody had to work. That's only possible if there's abundance instead of scarcity. If there's no scarcity, then there is no need to economize. In other words, real socialism is actually a fully automated economy-less post-scarcity society.

Brazil is so ridiculously far from that ideal that it's comical to even suggest implanting socialism here. Comical. The damage caused by that idea is worse than literal nazis roaming free. These people have infiltrated every school, every university.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#166

Post by rafaelrc »

whatsu wrote: post #10
skrowl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No company should give up it's user data without a fight It's not even clear that who they were looking for had broken any laws

[flagged]

Oh yeah, telegram is a nazi company, they "commited a crime". Fuck off. What is your plan to defeat nazism, ban the whole internet? Because, sorry for giving you the bad news, Telegram is far from the only place where there are stupid people.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#167

Post by boeingUH60 »

esperent wrote: post #143
sofixa wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling the UAE a Russian ally is a massive stretch. They're not allied with the US nor Russia, they're allied with their big neighbours, Saudi Arabia, and have good relationships with many important countries (US, Russia, India, etc.) but don't follow anyone's line (outside of Saudi Arabia and it cost them dearly in Yemen, so they probably don't anymore) near-automatically. Lots of Russians in the UAE, including run…

> Calling the UAE a Russian ally is a massive stretch. No, it is not. Of course they look out for themselves first. However, in this time of war and international sanctions they are one of the countries who are deepening their ties with Russia. They are spending a lot of money on PR to make it seem like they are on the side of the west, but in actual fact they have been profiting massively from Russia over the last f…

They're looking out for themselves and have profited greatly from the Russian government's folly...good riddance. After all, every country including the US is out for their own interests; none of them are moral beacons.

"Anyone who is not for us is against us" is sheer Western arrogance going back to the days of warmonger George Bush.

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#168

Post by matheusmoreira »

epups wrote: post #147
matheusmoreira wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> There are videos of Lula saying his plan is to literally implement socialism in Brazil. There are videos of him preaching ideas like having the government give everyone what they need to "survive". That's literally the ideology of every social democratic party in Europe (and most center right as well). They are not communists, and neither is Lula.

https://g1.globo.com/politica/noticia/2010/05/presidente-alt...

Relativization of private property: you own land, someone invades your land and settles on it and you're forced to "mediate" with the invaders before being afforded access to the justice system.

Regulation of all media and communications, censorship in case of "abuse" and even a government ranking of media channels based on how much they conform to "human rights".

Prohibition of religious symbols in public.

Taxation of fortunes because entrepreneurship in Brazil apparently wasn't difficult enough.

Do european political parties really push shit like this?

Re: Brazil judge orders temporary suspension of Telegram

#170

Post by matheusmoreira »

xinayder wrote: post #153
bhk wrote: post #29

Doesn't this sound like a dictatorship?

Not yet but Congress is trying to approve a "fake news" package which tries to put more responsibilities on the hands of Big Tech regarding monitoring online content. When I put it like that it doesn't sound so bad, but then you read the text and find out the government and its judiciary institutions have the absolute power of determining if something is deemed as fake news or not. Then you can say it's actually good…

> reputable newspaper wrote an article that one of the Supreme Court judges was implicated in the major corruption scandal in Brazil

> a few days later the Supreme Court ordered the takedown of said article

What scandal are you referring to? I'd like to read about it. Let's make some Streisand magic happen!

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