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I’m ready to trade in my electric car

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Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're also not viable for road trips. Teslas can make it work but you still have to be willing for your trip to take 20 - 30% longer than it would with a gas car. In my experience, 5-10% longer is more accurate. Very little of my charging time is spent waiting for the car to charge. While the car is charging, I'm using the bathroom or eating.

You go the the bathroom/eat every 2 hours?

Yes.

On average, people urinate about 7 times a day. If you're awake for 16 hours, that's once every 2.28 hours. I'm diabetic so I go a little more often.

I'll only eat about every 4-5 hours though, which means every other or every third charging stop.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Put a different way, although I have seen plastic bags over pump handles, I have never pulled into a gas station and not been able to fill up.

I have on several occasions. Power outages, being out of gas, having to clean tanks because of a bad batch of gas, a gas station I used to go to on road trips going out of business, credit card processing issues, getting tired of lines so I go elsewhere, and just being closed for the night are all failure modes of gas pumps I've personally experienced. Some of these way more than once. I haven't personally experience…

I guess you’re unlucky or maybe I’m lucky. I think I’ve filled up 1500 times and never had to leave a station and go to another because it wasn’t working.

And I’ve never experienced bad gas requiring repairs.

I’d say 95% of these fillups were in the US if that matters.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Get a TeslaTap. I used one with my Leaf so I could charge off my Tesla charger at home. http://www.umc-j1772.com/index.php?route=product/product&pro... When I sold my Leaf and moved across the country I gave mine to a guy charging his Leaf near a supercharger. He was so excited

Can he use this at the Supercharger? I didn't think that was possible.

No, but allegedly if you get two adapters you can use a supercharger for free (with a Tesla)

You need a Tesla to CCS2, and then a CCS2 back to Tesla. I've only seen videos of this, haven't had the opportunity to test myself.

Makes me wonder what could be done to trick it into charging another EV for free.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have on several occasions. Power outages, being out of gas, having to clean tanks because of a bad batch of gas, a gas station I used to go to on road trips going out of business, credit card processing issues, getting tired of lines so I go elsewhere, and just being closed for the night are all failure modes of gas pumps I've personally experienced. Some of these way more than once. I haven't personally experience…

I guess you’re unlucky or maybe I’m lucky. I think I’ve filled up 1500 times and never had to leave a station and go to another because it wasn’t working. And I’ve never experienced bad gas requiring repairs. I’d say 95% of these fillups were in the US if that matters.

1500 times is almost every week for 30 years. I'm probably only at 600-700 or so fill-ups personally, practically all US.

One occasion my fuel filter got badly clogged a few miles from a gas station on a road trip. I've had it happen to one of my vehicles and I've seen it happen to a few friends as well.

The power issues or just being completely out of gas were usually from hurricanes or the big freeze in Texas.

You've also never encountered or seen a gas station that was closed for the night? Every pump has always been 24/7 operations? I'm not even talking about full service stations, but I've encountered many gas stations where the store closes at like 2 or 3 AM meaning no attendant so they can't leave the pumps on. Its the worst when you're running low on gas on a late night road trip, you just have enough gas to roll into town, and the first gas station you roll up to, the only one you can see from the highway, is closed for the night. Bonus points, that small tiny town in the middle of no where also has absolutely abysmal cell reception so no phone maps. Better hope the TomTom shoved in the glove compartment eight years ago knows a couple of other gas stations in the few miles you've got left in the tank and that those stations still exist and are not also closed. Fun times. I've had this happen way more than once.

And its definitely happened more than once to me where credit card processing was down so they were asking everyone to pay cash. I don't usually carry cash on me, so buying gas wasn't happening.

And then finally I'll plan on getting gas at a Costco or Sams Club, see the massive lines, and decide to go drive another mile or two and pay more. Are there never lines at Costco or Sams Club stations near you?

And then finally I've definitely pulled into a station only to realize every handle has a bag on it.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that 90% is not good when the alternative is 99.99%. For gas stations, 99.99% of the time the pump works. So much so that I don’t even consider that it doesn’t work. That’s the level of reliability that I expect.

I see plastic bags over pump handles way more than 0.01% of the time. In fact over the last year I've had more experiences with gas pumps being broken than EV dispensers not working.

> I see plastic bags over pump handles way more than 0.01% of the time.

Yes, I do see those often enough. Maybe once a week, so way more than 0.01%

But of course, even the tiniest of gas stations has multiple pumps, four is the smallest I recall seeing and the smallest one around here is 8 pumps.

One or two may be out of service regularly, but in more than 35 years of driving I have never pulled into a gas station where all 4/8+ pumps were out of service simultaneously.

And then, even if that happened, given the way gas stations congregate, there is another one across the street which will be working.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you’re unlucky or maybe I’m lucky. I think I’ve filled up 1500 times and never had to leave a station and go to another because it wasn’t working. And I’ve never experienced bad gas requiring repairs. I’d say 95% of these fillups were in the US if that matters.

1500 times is almost every week for 30 years. I'm probably only at 600-700 or so fill-ups personally, practically all US. One occasion my fuel filter got badly clogged a few miles from a gas station on a road trip. I've had it happen to one of my vehicles and I've seen it happen to a few friends as well. The power issues or just being completely out of gas were usually from hurricanes or the big freeze in Texas. You'…

> Every pump has always been 24/7 operations?

You don't need every pump to be open, just one.

Living in the west coast of the US I spend a lot of time driving around desert areas which are pretty remote. Many times I've rolled into remote gas stations in the middle of nowhere at ~3am where everything was dark but the pumps were operating.

You are either supremely unlucky, or vastly exaggerating the issue. It is very difficult to not find a working gas pump in the US, they're everywhere.

Anecdotes are anectodes, but I've been driving 35+ years and I have many cars and I drive a lot including much time in remote areas and yet, I have not even once experienced any of the problems you assert are common.

In order to promote EVs it is important to be honest about the advantages but also the disadvantages.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mach E. I've had plug and charge work every time I've used an EA charger on the first try. I've never failed to charge on an EA charger nor have I ever had to use an app to pay for it. Most EVgo charging experiences have been plug and charge. I did have one experience a while ago that needed an app but that was one of their older chargers which even still had their old logo on it. All their newer chargers have succes…

Huh, ok, it seems like the Mach E is special in this regard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_15118 Now if they could just support it for my i4...

Nope. Both my Lucid and my Ioniq 5 just plug and charge at EA, and I’ve never had an issue with either.

Other stations require payment, but EVGo plug and charge works too if you’ve set it up ahead of time.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#338
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1500 times is almost every week for 30 years. I'm probably only at 600-700 or so fill-ups personally, practically all US. One occasion my fuel filter got badly clogged a few miles from a gas station on a road trip. I've had it happen to one of my vehicles and I've seen it happen to a few friends as well. The power issues or just being completely out of gas were usually from hurricanes or the big freeze in Texas. You'…

> Every pump has always been 24/7 operations? You don't need every pump to be open, just one. Living in the west coast of the US I spend a lot of time driving around desert areas which are pretty remote. Many times I've rolled into remote gas stations in the middle of nowhere at ~3am where everything was dark but the pumps were operating. You are either supremely unlucky, or vastly exaggerating the issue. It is very…

> Many times I've rolled into remote gas stations in the middle of nowhere at ~3am where everything was dark but the pumps were operating.

Many states require someone to be working at the station to quickly respond to any issues. If there's not enough business at 3am to justify paying someone to work all through the night, they won't keep the pumps on all night long. This will definitely vary from state to state. And places like Costco, those pumps shut off at like 9:00PM.

And I do agree, most of the times where I was unable to get gas at one station I was able to find another working station within a few miles, especially in suburban areas. In times of natural disasters though, I was definitely unable to find any working gas pumps, at least not without potentially risking getting stranded continuing to drive around wasting gas to try and find a different pump. I do agree those are disaster situations and not indicative of the normal state of affairs, and that CCS chargers would probably also have not been operational at those times.

> You are either supremely unlucky, or vastly exaggerating the issue.

Or maybe I just don't have as selective of memory or pay more attention to things around me than some other people. All of these issues work out to a little over a dozen failures for me to get gas over the 600-700ish times I've probably pumped gas, so yeah a pretty low failure rate overall. We should be honest about the disadvantages of pumping gas though, of which there are many.

> It is very difficult to not find a working gas pump in the US, they're everywhere.

I'm not saying I couldn't find any working gas pump, I'm saying I've found pumps not working on many occasions and needed to go find a working one elsewhere. Those are two very different concepts. It may be hard to not find any working gas pump, but given about 30 minutes in any urban or suburban area I could probably find at least one pump not working at the moment.

> In order to promote EVs it is important to be honest about the advantages but also the disadvantages.

I am being 100% honest. I spend more time waiting to charge my ICE car (driving to a gas station, starting the pump, pumping the gas, leaving the gas station, about every week and a half) than I do my EV, by hours a year. I've personally experienced more challenges and frustrations getting my ICE car fueled than I have charging my EV. And I spend more on energy costs for my ICE car than I do my EV, with those costs being extremely variable. Meanwhile my EV's energy costs are largely fixed due to 1-3 year electricity contracts.

> I've been driving 35+ years and I have many cars and I drive a lot including much time in remote areas and yet, I have not even once experienced any of the problems you assert are common.

In 35 years of driving you've never once seen a broken pump? You've never once seen a gas station closed? You've never once seen a line of people at a gas station and decided the wait wasn't worth it? Who's not being honest here?

I realize I'm just one data point in a sea of many, but it doesn't make my experiences dishonest. I'm being 100% honest sharing my experiences here. People don't often make YouTube videos of their experiences when things just go smoothly and right when charging. I'm not going to upload a video every time I plug in my car in my garage and it just charges. I'm not uploading videos every time I plug and charge on some public DCFC. Someone probably is going to make a video when it doesn't work for them though. People are going to share the headlines of "DCFC stations have high failure rates (in this limited geographic area we surveyed, briefly)". If the only reports are the times it doesn't work, you're not going to have a very "honest" set of reports. And I agree, different corridors are going to be different, YMMV. For the places I go, there's a good number of decent DCFC when I need them.

Re: I’m ready to trade in my electric car

#339
post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1500 times is almost every week for 30 years. I'm probably only at 600-700 or so fill-ups personally, practically all US. One occasion my fuel filter got badly clogged a few miles from a gas station on a road trip. I've had it happen to one of my vehicles and I've seen it happen to a few friends as well. The power issues or just being completely out of gas were usually from hurricanes or the big freeze in Texas. You'…

> Every pump has always been 24/7 operations? You don't need every pump to be open, just one. Living in the west coast of the US I spend a lot of time driving around desert areas which are pretty remote. Many times I've rolled into remote gas stations in the middle of nowhere at ~3am where everything was dark but the pumps were operating. You are either supremely unlucky, or vastly exaggerating the issue. It is very…

I actually had yet another failure to get gas today for my ICE. Pull up to the gas station near my office, cars at every pump except one. I circle around to get to that pump and find out why, it's out of service. I guess I'll wait for someone to leave one of the other pumps.

A few minutes later, someone moves. I get to that pump. I try tap to pay. Declined. I put in a chipped card. Declined. Try another card. Declined. I go inside, cash only today for some reason. I don't carry cash with me often, so no gas for me.

There's like 10 minutes of my day wasted and I didn't even end up getting any gas. I'll have to try going to some other pump later.

Meanwhile my wife with the EV left the house with a full tank, just like every day. Zero minutes spent waiting or failing to dispense energy this week for that vehicle.

Let's be honest about the pros and cons of each.

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