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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#831

Post by dgellow »

mnd999 wrote: post #442
hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

Users don’t want crappy PWAs, they want something that follows the platform UI conventions. It’s good that Apple care enough about about UX to actually enforce this.

Users mostly want the app features, the rest is secondary.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#832

Post by zaphirplane »

SSLy wrote: post #632
hnarn wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can just download the eSIM If we disregard the fact that many older but still usable phones don’t support e-sim (which was the original point), what do you mean ”just” download the e-sim? At least in my country, getting an e-sim is a pretty involved process which requires secure authentication, and specifically in my case that authentication would be gone with the now-broken phone if one didn’t have the foresig…

I have Orange Flex. I can just install the app on a new phone, login with email, and have new eSIM issued and installed within a minute.

That also makes it easy for a hacker to steal you phone number

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#833

Post by baby »

walls wrote: post #640
baby wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t imagine a single scenario where your comment would be anything else than FUD. Nice try Tim Apple.

It's the state of desktop gaming already, why would it not happen on phones once the only barrier has been removed? Epic has been itching to use their own app store for years.

You mean it’s the state of desktop, which allows you to install any apps you want. Again these kind of misdirecting comparisons sound malicious.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#834

Post by baby »

criddell wrote: post #655
baby wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. It depends on how you ask the question. “Do you want want to be able to install apps that will have more features/allow you to purchase directly (kindle app), or provide cheaper prices (twitter blue), or cover more usecases (crypto wallets), or offer different browsing experiences (real chrome/firefox), etc.”

Do you disagree that relatively few Android users sideload?

I’m not going to guess but I personally did it when I had an Android

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#835

Post by userbinator »

simondotau wrote: post #551
userbinator wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What flip phones? They were all locked down on the carrier side. You seem to have missed the, admittedly brief, period where Java games on phones were extremely commonplace.

If you think they were "extremely commonplace", you were living in a mid-2000s tech bubble. At best they were kinda commonplace among a narrow set of people who gave a shit, knew it was possible, happened to have devices which supported these games, happened to have a revision of the device which wasn't locked down by the carrier, and who had the time and patience to tinker with such unusable junk. If more than 1 per…

happened to have a revision of the device which wasn't locked down by the carrier

In many countries, including China, all phones are unlocked by default.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#836

Post by fortuna86 »

josephcsible wrote: post #2

Hasn't Apple always said the reason they don't allow sideloading was that it'd be impossible without compromising security? So are they claiming their European iDevices won't be secure anymore, or are they admitting they were lying before and that the real reason was nothing but greed?

[dead]

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#837

Post by simondotau »

flohofwoe wrote: post #598
simondotau wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then don’t buy an iPhone. I think it’s ridiculous that we are asking the government to save us from our own choices. As much as you and I don’t like it, what Apple is doing is perfectly legal. And as much as you or I might support a change in the law, you’re not going to get my support if the legislation is truly universal and not just a narrow-band targeting of a single company for developing an ecosystem which reso…

> I think it’s ridiculous that we are asking the government to save us from our own choices. So you think it's better asking companies to save us from our own choices? And that doesn't strike you as even more ridiculous?

I think it's ridiculous that you think it sounds ridiculous. If people actually cared about this stuff, there would be a massive market opportunity for a competitor to make a product that satisfied people's demands. But they don't, so there isn't.

Most of the noise in the community is from people who just enjoy seeing Apple squirm and probably aren't even an Apple customer anyway. Meanwhile the entities spending real money to lobby governments on this issue actually only care about getting around Apple's increasingly consumer-protecting app review process — they tolerated the 30% fee right up until the very same month that Apple started forcing developers to inform users if they were tracking users between apps.

They want side-loading so they can track you, not so they can extract more money from you. Because they know they won't. Yes, entities like Epic might be able to sell apps with a lower marginal cost (not a lot lower, as they'll be handling stuff like fraud and refunds themselves, and Apple is still entitled to a software license fee) but the simple act of requiring consumers to enter their credit card number into an app is going to reduce transaction completion rates. I'd be willing to bet by at least 30%.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#838

Post by spartanatreyu »

sunshinerag wrote: post #763
leoh wrote: post #727

Superior functionality exclusively in the EU — USB-C, side-loading — is a good thing. It will remind US folks that the law is a powerful mechanism for making simple, non-controversial changes that improve everyone’s quality of life; but which corporations would otherwise refuse to accept. BTW — LAAS (lobbying-as-a-service) should probably exist.

Superior Functionality? That is subjective POV.

Hardly.

Apple made their app store incredibly restrictive and took a massive cut of any profits that anyone was making. Not just app sales, any profits. (This happened to hey.com, they wanted a cut of the subscription that users were getting outside of their app). Sometimes apple would just outright steal developer's apps by making their own version, then blocking the original developers by claiming that they were making rip offs of Apple's apps (you'll find a few stories of that happening here on HN).

Then to really rub salt in the wound, they started telling developers in essence: "If you don't like the way we run our app store then you can always make a web app", despite the fact that they had purposefully hampered web functionality on their devices to force developers to use the app store.

It's really strange how their browser only started getting better all of a sudden when they were getting sued for their anticompetitive behaviour and the EU said they were drafting up legislation to break their monopoly.

It is directly due to the efforts of the EU that Apple has been dragged kicking and screaming to add functionality to their own ecosystem that is objectively demonstrably superior to what was available before.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#839

Post by ivlad »

Derbasti wrote: post #621
ivlad wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recent example: https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-suspends-chinas-pi... Malicious app in alternative store, the one in Google Play is different.

That's exactly the point, though: side loading is not something to worry about, since normal users won't and shouldn't care about it at all. It is not a threat to the Apple App Store. But it does allow for niche applications such as NewPipe and F-Droid, for technical users who know the risks.

Almost everyone in China uses alternative stores, like Huawei or Xiaomi; how else do you think malicious PDD app got on their phones? The same applies to other counties in South-East Asia. I have seen our app for Android repackaged with malware and uploaded to an alternative store and listed there with hundreds of thousands downloads.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#840

Post by philistine »

spartanatreyu wrote: post #838
sunshinerag wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Superior Functionality? That is subjective POV.

Hardly. Apple made their app store incredibly restrictive and took a massive cut of any profits that anyone was making. Not just app sales, any profits. (This happened to hey.com, they wanted a cut of the subscription that users were getting outside of their app). Sometimes apple would just outright steal developer's apps by making their own version, then blocking the original developers by claiming that they were ma…

sideloading will not mean sidestepping the 30% cut for developers. Mark my words. If you need an example, look at what happened with the Netherlands and dating apps.
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