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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#721

I wonder if they considered an "iPhone Europe Edition" - USB-C, side loading, physical SIM cards. Sounds like a good phone!

Sounds like a lot of changes, wonder how big the lag between the world and European version will be.

I wouldn't count on Europe being the odd one out here. World vs US is a bigger gap than World vs EU given mmwave and cdma.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#722
post #602

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

> Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. It's the same with privacy. Forcing app publishers to state what user data is being sucked out of their phones was just a poor PR stunt. Nothing has changed. Applications still require payments in form of contact lists (which is more or less illegal in Europe if you don't have permissio…

>Applications still require payments in form of contact lists

What? It seems like you were trying to make a coherent argument but a list of contacts is in no way comparable to a paid subscription. Microsoft doesn't allow you to buy O365 with your contacts, do they?

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#723
post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users don't choose what they use, they use what they must. I can't choose to use Signal if everybody uses WhatsApp. I can't choose a non-ElectronJS Slack client because it doesn't exist. If PWA is cheaper to make, companies will go there. Whether or not it's better for the users. Companies want to make money, not help users.

> Company wants to make money, not help users Yea but Apple is a company too…

Good for them?

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#724
post #582
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your old phone was also eSIM compatible, you can just download the eSIM from your carrier like you would if you moved to any other phone.

> you can just download the eSIM If we disregard the fact that many older but still usable phones don’t support e-sim (which was the original point), what do you mean ”just” download the e-sim? At least in my country, getting an e-sim is a pretty involved process which requires secure authentication, and specifically in my case that authentication would be gone with the now-broken phone if one didn’t have the foresig…

You literally just reach out to your carrier and they will activate your new eSIM.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#725
post #85

I wonder if they considered an "iPhone Europe Edition" - USB-C, side loading, physical SIM cards. Sounds like a good phone!

What’s good about physical SIMs? I do like apple for daring to improve the status quo there, so I want my European Edition with only e-simsz

Not much. Apple wanted eSIM for years but carriers fought them over it. They like the physical lock-in of SIM cards. Customers can't easily switch because they have to wait for a SIM to ship or go to a carrier's brick and mortar presence to replace it.

Now? People can switch carriers while in their living room. Takes a matter of minutes. Absolutely frictionless.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#726

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

> the browser and its sandbox. A lot of viruses (and jailbreaks on iOS amongst others) are distributed via this browser / sandbox; it's only secure in theory and it took decades to get to that point. Sure (before the Rust evangelists swoop in), part of that was due to using unsafe languages; part was due to extension frameworks that had too much power (ActiveX, which was even used to update your operating system, I c…

Microsoft thought ActiveX was a good idea because they built Internet Explorer out of OLE and COM. Everything in that era of Windows was built to be embeddable and composable - "compound documents" being the original design goal. If you needed to stick, say, a video into a web page, COM/OLE was the obvious way to do that on Windows in 1996. It's not any different from, say, early Firefox extensions being built out of XUL - in fact, I recall XUL extensions for Firefox that would literally add ActiveX support back in. It wasn't until Chrome came along where extensions didn't get to muck about with browser internals.

You can exploit in both native and browser contexts. Most jailbreaks nowadays are assisted by a native application that you dev-sign to deliberately pwn yourself with. In the past we had websites that you could use to jailbreak with. Both are sandboxed environments with significant attackable surface area, so one is not necessarily more trustworthy than the other purely on measures of exploitability.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#727
Superior functionality exclusively in the EU — USB-C, side-loading — is a good thing. It will remind US folks that the law is a powerful mechanism for making simple, non-controversial changes that improve everyone’s quality of life; but which corporations would otherwise refuse to accept. BTW — LAAS (lobbying-as-a-service) should probably exist.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#728
post #727

Superior functionality exclusively in the EU — USB-C, side-loading — is a good thing. It will remind US folks that the law is a powerful mechanism for making simple, non-controversial changes that improve everyone’s quality of life; but which corporations would otherwise refuse to accept. BTW — LAAS (lobbying-as-a-service) should probably exist.

Usb-c sounds cool for now. But what about when a new port comes out and Apple can’t use it because the EU still mandates to use the old one?

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#729

Hasn't Apple always said the reason they don't allow sideloading was that it'd be impossible without compromising security? So are they claiming their European iDevices won't be secure anymore, or are they admitting they were lying before and that the real reason was nothing but greed?

It's one thing to provide security in the kindergarden. It's another thing to provide security in the jail. So far Apple's track record is kindergarden security. They do have tech in place, but how that tech would resist big bad world outside the wall remains to be seen. My guess would be that there will be apps breaking the jails in the first years and 10 years later things will settle on and it'll become relatively safe to sideload untrusted apps.

Of course if one's smart enough to only download apps from reputable websites, then the only worry will be privacy issues which are probably not important for most people

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#730

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

>>Apple being motivated by improving security are BS Their motivation is most definitely money now. Maybe not in the start though. Whatever their motives are though I’m super satisfied as a customer that they haven’t went down the android path of version calamity, an app store that I have zero trust in as an app buyer. Also tell me an android flavor the supports devices purchased 6 years ago? It’s a package deal. Hav…

>definitely money now

wait, so it wasn't money before? when they ran all those ads and did all of that 'we're the only privacy company' marketing? i guess it worked really well. when some of it was kinda just, reframing of lacking features and capabilities, and their 'closed ecosystem/walled garden' structure, as 'more secure'.

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