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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#711

Post by locustous »

threeseed wrote: post #584
heavyset_go wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's ban of all browsers but Safari turned out to be the main barrier preventing progressive web apps from being viable, deepening the duopoly power of themselves and Google, because Apple refuses to implement basic browser standards that are necessary for PWAs. And then when they do implement similar browser standards, they don't follow any web standards, they instead make their own proprietary bespoke web standa…

> turned out to be the main barrier preventing progressive web apps from being viable Until the issue is fixed and the goal posts are moved once again. Because PWAs have been available in one form or another for 14 years. And it's always because that the UX is terrible that makes them not viable not anything Apple has done.

> And it's always because that the UX is terrible that makes them not viable not anything Apple has done.

Obvious counter points.

Lots of people use websites. Which have an identical UX experience to PWAs.

A significant percentage of the app store is web view based apps that are near equivalents to PWAs. Been that way for years.

If people love native so much, why do sites like Reddit and LinkedIn heavily push mobile web users to the app? Seems it's not a universal opinion.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#712

Post by [deleted] »

Spivak wrote: post #678
Vt71fcAqt7 wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple's network effect is basically zero. >There's always one Android user in the friend group that spoils iMessage and FaceTime

Yes. That's literally my point. It's really hard for Apple to establish a network effect when any group above a certain size can't use iMessage or FaceTime and have to use a 3rd party app like Discord, Snap, or Messenger. You can't be the "everyone else is one it" social network when every Apple user uses a 3rd party messenger and video chat app for at least one person. That app ends up being the winner.

[deleted]

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#713

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

curt15 wrote: post #612
WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

newsflash to your newsflash: most „native” apps are lazy wrappers around shitty webviews anyway.

My rule of thumb is that for any application that relies on an internet connection for most of its functionality, I'd rather just use a real web browser.

My banking application is like this, and the irony is that it’s kinda sorta second factor to their browser UI, so I’ve got to live with it.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#714

Post by locustous »

palata wrote: post #682
heavyset_go wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone's dislike of PWAs is irrelevant to whether or not someone else should be able to use them if they want to. It's also irrelevant when it comes to users who want to benefit from competition in the app distribution market. If you don't like PWAs, you're free to not use them, and you're even free to benefit from the improvements their competition brings to the whole mobile software ecosystem. It's also ironic to…

> If you don't like PWAs, you're free to not use them, and you're even free to benefit from the improvements their competition brings to the whole mobile software ecosystem. IMHO, that's very naive. Look at ElectronJS apps. I hate ElectronJS, still the most used apps on my Desktop computer are ElectronJS. Why? Because I don't have a choice, because it's cheaper for the developers. Before ElectronJS, I actually had re…

> I hate ElectronJS

Then you should support PWA as an alternative. It's lighter weight, both lower memory and download size, compared to electron.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#715

Post by roamerz »

hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

>>Apple being motivated by improving security are BS

Their motivation is most definitely money now. Maybe not in the start though. Whatever their motives are though I’m super satisfied as a customer that they haven’t went down the android path of version calamity, an app store that I have zero trust in as an app buyer. Also tell me an android flavor the supports devices purchased 6 years ago? It’s a package deal. Having the wealth that is generated by the things that the EU has mandated will cause cuts in other areas of device support and/r&d. The option is making less profit or bumping prices to offset. In time we will see.

I think it would be great of Apple to just stop selling devices in the EU as a thanks to politicians who voted for this ill advised rule. I’d like to see how long it would take for them to roll it back because you know they would eventually buckle to the people.

To you and those of like thinking just assert your freedom of choice and go buy an android device along with the shit show it is and leave us to our relatively safe walled garden.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#716

Post by simooooo »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #665
josephcsible wrote: post #2

Hasn't Apple always said the reason they don't allow sideloading was that it'd be impossible without compromising security? So are they claiming their European iDevices won't be secure anymore, or are they admitting they were lying before and that the real reason was nothing but greed?

Is MacOS insecure then?

You could probably argue yes, since a 3rd party app isn’t validated in any way by apple

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#717

Post by tonyedgecombe »

realusername wrote: post #385
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3577670

I see nothing in this paper which is proving their claim. The worst part is when they talk about the drop of CD sales pre-streaming where the legal options to consume music online ... just didn't exist at all. If there's no legal option where your customers can pay you, that sure can lead to a revenue drop. The music industries have been very slow to adapt to the internet and it has cost them some revenue, I'll give…

>If there's no legal option where your customers can pay you, that sure can lead to a revenue drop.

But you think that all stopped as soon as there was a legal option? Do you really think there are no people out there who can afford it but chose to pirate anyway?

I don't know why people find it so hard to believe other than they are trying to justify their own activity. Do you think the media industry spent all this money on anti-piracy activities just for the fun of it?

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#718

Post by tonyedgecombe »

mrtksn wrote: post #284
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Those who will steal will steal and those who will pay will pay anyway. That's not been my experience. Every time a crack appeared for my software sales went down. Every time I strengthened the licensing software sales went up. This is for B2B software, god knows what it is like if you sell to consumers.

Could it be the case that B2B software is more susceptible to piracy induced revenue loss? I imagine B2B being completely utilitarian, thus "free" software would mean direct cost cuts. In B2C, generally, convenience is the king.

Talking to my peers I get the impression it's worse for consumer oriented software.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#719

Post by Sporktacular »

jakub_jo wrote: post #454
mnd999 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users don’t want crappy PWAs, they want something that follows the platform UI conventions. It’s good that Apple care enough about about UX to actually enforce this.

If users don't want crappy PWAs than they wont use them. It's common sense to let "the market decide" -- why not in this case?

Because markets sometimes fail so it pays to be sure if that would or wouldn't happen. How many Android customers choose an app based on its API? What is the quality of the Android store? Why would it work differently for an Apple Store?

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#720

Post by Sporktacular »

kaba0 wrote: post #85
edandersen wrote: post #76

I wonder if they considered an "iPhone Europe Edition" - USB-C, side loading, physical SIM cards. Sounds like a good phone!

What’s good about physical SIMs? I do like apple for daring to improve the status quo there, so I want my European Edition with only e-simsz

Physical SIMs are convenient, especially for travellers and facilitate competition through super-easy carrier switching. What are the improvements of e-SIMs for customers? Please don't say size.
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