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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#661

Post by 76SlashDolphin »

Cort3z wrote: post #570
76SlashDolphin wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you would need to somehow get in touch with said carrier. Granted, you could probably do that over WiFi but if my phone breaks when, say, I'm out camping I'm SoL.

Would you bring a spare phone then? Sounds implausible. If you did, and it’s an emergency you can use a phone without a sim at all with the emergency network.

I actually do, it's always good to have a few back up essential things if they don't take up too much space. Every time I go camping/travelling I update my old OnePlus 3T (LineageOS is still up-to-date which is amazing) and bring it with me. If my iPhone breaks I can move the SIM card and still keep at it.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#664

Post by 76SlashDolphin »

jackothy wrote: post #522
76SlashDolphin wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you would need to somehow get in touch with said carrier. Granted, you could probably do that over WiFi but if my phone breaks when, say, I'm out camping I'm SoL.

While I could see how the camping scenario might matter to a few people, I would personally rather have a couple mAh larger battery because of the slight physical space savings that I imagine eSIM brings.

Oh yeah, agreed. If moving an eSIM requires me stowing away a QR code with my backup phone then I'll gladly give up my physical SIM slot for more battery.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#665

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

josephcsible wrote: post #2

Hasn't Apple always said the reason they don't allow sideloading was that it'd be impossible without compromising security? So are they claiming their European iDevices won't be secure anymore, or are they admitting they were lying before and that the real reason was nothing but greed?

Is MacOS insecure then?

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#666

Post by augment003 »

voytec wrote: post #602
hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

> Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. It's the same with privacy. Forcing app publishers to state what user data is being sucked out of their phones was just a poor PR stunt. Nothing has changed. Applications still require payments in form of contact lists (which is more or less illegal in Europe if you don't have permissio…

> It's the same with privacy. Forcing app publishers to state what user data is being sucked out of their phones was just a poor PR stunt.

> Nothing has changed. Applications still require payments in form of contact lists

This is actually proof that users don’t make good choices when it comes to privacy and security even when they have the necessary information.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#667

Post by MBCook »

kaba0 wrote: post #97
MBCook wrote: post #33

Duh? The EU has no jurisdiction over the US. So there will be no legal need for Apple to allow it here. Just like they don’t allow alternate payment methods for dating apps in the US like some other countries required and Apple had to comply with. The App Store is too critical to the way Apple sees things, they’re not going to just say “oh well”. I bet things are only open for EU residents with EU purchased phones. B…

Take a look at the “Brussels effect”. The only reason it doesn’t apply in this case is that software changes are easy to made — but Apple might still have to eventually let it go even in the US, if for example people like it enough.

Right. Apple was likely to go USB-C soon on the iPhone anyway, but the EU rule may have pushed it up. It doesn’t make a lot of sense to make two physical versions over the charge port so all iPhones are (allegedly) going USB-C.

They only made things different when they absolutely had two, like the radios. But software featured are really easy to differentiate in different countries.

The big risk, and I agree with you, is that this will prove that sideloading isn't the great evil they’ve been portraying and they’ll be forced to offer it in additional places by more laws until it becomes easier to just give it to everyone.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#668

Post by kiratp »

76SlashDolphin wrote: post #644
walls wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're also not buying an Xbox, Playstation, Switch, etc. right?

With Xboxes you have dev mode so you are definitely buying the Xbox. The Switch technically doesn't have a web browser so I wouldn't define it as a general-purpose computing device. The PS5 should definitely get a dev mode like the Xbox, otherwise while it can do general computing tasks like email, messaging, document editing by plugging in a mouse and a keyboard and you can't run your own code on it then you don't o…

IPhones can have apps pushed to them exactly like Xbox dev mode.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#669

Post by mirekrusin »

wiseowise wrote: post #362
mirekrusin wrote: post #302

They should just allow installing other operating systems instead. If you want out of their platform, install Linux OS on your phone and have whatever you want there. Wouldn't that make everybody happy - Apple, EU and customers?

That should be the next step, yes.

My argument is that it should be the only step that is fair for both sides, efficient to implement, collapses bureaucratic policy to single sentence, doesn't create "issue created here - must be solved somewhere else" problems, nourishes progress, gives true freedom to purchased item owners, preserves good capitalistic incentives and many more.

Sideloading will be full of complicated very important details sucking out live from all parties involved.

I think we all agree that it should not be possible to unintentionally click or autoload link that downloads some settings app that looks like ie. iOS settings app but is developed by some shady party that has access to ie. your biometric security primitives, can look like/impersonate any built-in app/OS behavior etc.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#670

Post by xenonite »

tigrezno wrote: post #315
xenonite wrote: post #153

Ingenious! What if a security incident happens just in Europe but not elsewhere? Then it becomes instantly clear that Apple’s argument against sideloading was not a strawman.

hasn't happened on android with sideloaded apps. Stop fearmongering.

Android is another system, and yes, there have been breaches.

Lets say it like that, and I know I am simplifying quite a bit:

Apple checks security at "compile time", during the App Store checks.

Android checks security only (or mostly?) during "run time".

"Compile time" can give good guarantees because the "compile time" can quite long. Then, during program execution, there need to be less run time checks (and a program can be much faster, by the way).

What do you think happens when allowing sideloading on Apple iOS devices? Suppose there are much less run time checks available because compile time checks are expected?

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