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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#811

Post by roguas »

est31 wrote: post #770
leoh wrote: post #727

Superior functionality exclusively in the EU — USB-C, side-loading — is a good thing. It will remind US folks that the law is a powerful mechanism for making simple, non-controversial changes that improve everyone’s quality of life; but which corporations would otherwise refuse to accept. BTW — LAAS (lobbying-as-a-service) should probably exist.

The EU is at the side of the customers as long as the companies making the product are not in the EU. Had the EU a strong phone manufacturer industry that didn't use USB-C, we still wouldn't have that requirement. Companies always maintain closest lobbying ties to the governments they reside in (at least if both economies are equally developed), and countries care less about companies that don't give many jobs to the…

Show me example of a thing that would prove it. EU has tons of regulation on cars(most of manufacturers are EU based) - ask any car manufacturer how easy it is to get a car sold in EU(not saying that tons of regulation is good or that difficulty of producing is good, but it is an example that goes well against your argument).

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#812

Post by Terretta »

afavour wrote: post #583
Terretta wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A non-app-store web app on iPhone has been able to be full screen since initial release of Home Screen web apps. When you launch from Home Screen, it gets the whole screen. See the Xbox Cloud Gaming "app" for instance, which is outside the App Store, just launch then "Add to Home Screen", close, and run from Home Screen. https://www.xbox.com/en-us/play As for what can be done with browsers, see the venerable iCab but…

To be clear you absolutely cannot run Xbox games in a web browser. The service you’re talking about is just streaming video from a remote Xbox to the phone. You and the OP are both right about fullscreen. There is a web fullscreen API, which Apple does not support. However, PWAs strip out the browser UI so you’re effectively fullscreen. Though you can’t do anything about the status bar, nor can you lock screen orient…

Not sure what you mean by strip out the browser UI.

When home screen apps first came out we built some for clients and if I recall correctly, lack of browser UI was default.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#813

Post by crote »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #796
nickpp wrote: post #754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-C itself was that "magic" new port 10 years ago. EU at the time was recommending standardization on the abomination that was micro-USB. Luckily they didn’t make alternatives illegal, like now, or you’d never have seen your much beloved USB-C.

Instead of mandating the standard to be used, they should've mandated that phone vendors agree on one standard, with a revision every x years or so.

Luckily, that is exactly what happened! The law explicitly states that it will be reviewed every few years to determine whether USB-C is still the best choice.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#814

Post by crote »

dahfizz wrote: post #744
herbstein wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like when everyone moved from mini-USB to USB-C? It's also good to remember that lightning connectors are USB2 in a different form factor - outdated and slow.

There wasn't a law mandating the use of the old micro-B port. The EU issued a memorandum asking companies nicely to use micro-B, but obviously it wasn't enforced (Apple never complied). This situation is different. Apple and others are completely unable to upgrade to USB-D when it comes around.

No, they are not. They will be able to use USB-D in parallel with USB-C until USB-D becomes industry standard, at which point it will be adopted by the EU as the new mandatory standard port.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#815

Post by adam_arthur »

dagorenouf wrote: post #728
leoh wrote: post #727

Superior functionality exclusively in the EU — USB-C, side-loading — is a good thing. It will remind US folks that the law is a powerful mechanism for making simple, non-controversial changes that improve everyone’s quality of life; but which corporations would otherwise refuse to accept. BTW — LAAS (lobbying-as-a-service) should probably exist.

Usb-c sounds cool for now. But what about when a new port comes out and Apple can’t use it because the EU still mandates to use the old one?

Then industry players would build consensus around a new standard and adopt that into law? Would you prefer a world where browser vendors are all designing their own HTML and JS features independently rather than working off a common spec too?

At a certain scale of adoption/societal impact, having a common set of agreed standards is much more important than fragmented "innovation". I would argue having a general and common way to charge devices qualifies for that level of importance. The incentive on Apple's side to stay off of USB-C can only be one of profit driven customer hostile design... as there's really zero technical or otherwise reason to have stayed on lightning this long.

One of the biggest annoyances in my daily life is having to swap back and forth between USB-C and lightning cables. These lightning cables being sold today are effectively trash to be thrown away in a year or two. Completely unnecessary, and hard to have any respect for the intelligence of people who defend it. There is no slippery slope here. If Apple wants to build a next gen port, then they do it alongside other industry players rather than monopolizing the technology so they can charge 10x markup on cables/accessories/licensing... which imparts zero benefit to the consumer.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#816

Post by neximo64 »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #518
neximo64 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be quite undesirable to distribute apps through a means where economies of scale are not available for example if there is no US market

Europe is a large enough market by itself. It’s slightly bigger than the US one.

No digital market has Europe as a larger market. When you substitute revenue for profit Europe is typically less than 10% or even less than 5% of profits if there are any for a company targeting electronic sales. The European customer is far more spend thrift.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#817

Post by illiarian »

candiodari wrote: post #752
evilduck wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I've plugged lightning cables into pretty much any imaginable sort of USB-A socket over than last decade and have never encountered one that wouldn't supply a charge specifically to a lightning cable. Please, be specific with what limitations you're referring to because this is counter to all evidence I've ever been witness to.

They supply a charge fine, but no standards-based fast charging.

What you mean to say is: USB Power Delivery as a standard didn't even appear until after Lightning was launched. Any fast charging didn't appear until USB-C specs that only became finalized in 2014.

And Lightning has been charging my iPhones pretty fast

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#818

Post by mikenew »

mrkramer wrote: post #793

Apple's exclusivity on allowing and deciding what goes on the AppStore and on the iOS was their way of controlling the user experience and their way to ensure future sales of iPhones. They didn't want that iOS, AppStore and iPhones get flooded with low quality apps. Similar way of thinking that I know of was Valve and Steam, where Steam users needed to Greenlit a game before it came to the Steam store. Imo Steam had…

The major difference is that I can install whatever the hell I want on my own PC (including my Steam Deck!). Apple has an exclusive store and an exclusive device.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#819

Post by illiarian »

johndisko wrote: post #749
dagorenouf wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usb-c sounds cool for now. But what about when a new port comes out and Apple can’t use it because the EU still mandates to use the old one?

Here's a crazy idea. USB-C can coexist with the new port until the new port proves its worth standardizing to the same degree (as USB-C). But somehow we have decided that small computers (aka phones) must only have 1 port.

> But somehow we have decided that small computers (aka phones) must only have 1 port.

Because, you guessed it, they are small. And any port you add requires a not insignificant amount of space

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#820

Post by ikurei »

mrkramer wrote: post #793

Apple's exclusivity on allowing and deciding what goes on the AppStore and on the iOS was their way of controlling the user experience and their way to ensure future sales of iPhones. They didn't want that iOS, AppStore and iPhones get flooded with low quality apps. Similar way of thinking that I know of was Valve and Steam, where Steam users needed to Greenlit a game before it came to the Steam store. Imo Steam had…

> Similar way of thinking that I know of was Valve and Steam, where Steam users needed to Greenlit a game before it came to the Steam store.

Not the same at all. You can install whatever you want on the Steam Deck.

I'd fine with Apple just curating their App Store; I am not fine with them deciding what software I can run on "my" device.

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