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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#801
post #776
post #770

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is at the side of the customers as long as the companies making the product are not in the EU. Had the EU a strong phone manufacturer industry that didn't use USB-C, we still wouldn't have that requirement. Companies always maintain closest lobbying ties to the governments they reside in (at least if both economies are equally developed), and countries care less about companies that don't give many jobs to the…

I would like to see some solid proof on this, as I don't buy this claim. The EU has squeezed telcoms on roaming charges which created a lot of howling. The EU also has rather strict regulation concerning gas use of cars, ICE emissions and so on, probably second only to California. The EU approach to food and pharma security is fundamentally different to that of the USA, and it impacts EU companies. Regulations around…

And don’t forget GDPR

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#802
post #727

Superior functionality exclusively in the EU — USB-C, side-loading — is a good thing. It will remind US folks that the law is a powerful mechanism for making simple, non-controversial changes that improve everyone’s quality of life; but which corporations would otherwise refuse to accept. BTW — LAAS (lobbying-as-a-service) should probably exist.

Let’s suppose you’re right that USB-C and side-loading are “superior functionality”. There must be some value to that superior functionality; consumers should be willing to pay extra for it if they value it. It seems logically like Apple ought to offer a USB-C iPhone if there is enough demand for it to generate more profit, except that it lowers the cost for customers to switch phones, which likely costs them more than they’d make in additional profit by having a USB-C version. This puts their interests at odds with the customer’s interests. There are a lot of other similar situations, e.g. most people would rather have cars that last longer, not have to deal with advertising, farmers want repairable equipment, etc., but the economics don’t work out well for the company. How does a market economy rectify that?

I’d argue that in theory, new upstarts ought to be able to enter the market and satisfy the demand if it exists. However, in many fields, there are substantial barriers to entry that prevent this. For instance, in the auto industry, it takes huge amounts of capital to reach the necessary scale, gain enough experience and reputation, etc., to be able to compete with existing companies. Similarly, it would be a monumental engineering effort to produce “iPhone with USB-C” due to the amount of intellectual property, goodwill, Silicon deals, integrations, etc., that Apple provides. It would be impossible, really, due to iMessage and FaceTime being proprietary. There could be new cable providers that don’t run ads, but they wouldn’t be able to compete on cost, and they would have trouble dealing with the regulatory environment for infrastructure, striking deals with networks, etc.

Banning companies from engaging in practices that benefit them once they become sufficiently adversarial to consumers isn’t a scalable solution. There are many instances of this across many industries; regulating them all would be like playing Whack-A-Mike. It also provides no recourse to the group of market participants who don’t care if their phone has Lightning or USB-C, and probably prefer Lightning since they already have a charger. It also leaves less room for innovation since companies will have to comply with standards, possibly preventing superior technology from being developed (that’s how we got Lightning to begin with).

I’d love to hear other/better solutions. I’ll throw one idea/observation out myself. A lot of these misalignments are because providing a better consumer experience today reduces the likelihood they will be a customer tomorrow. Either they will leverage the lower switching cost to switch, or they will be more loyal but purchase less in the future due to the increased quality. What’s a way to manipulate company economics to favor shorter-term views of the company, and disregard higher-growth plans? Higher interest rates. Maybe a higher interest rate environment could mitigate some of these issues by ensuring companies care about the business they have today, more than the one that they could have tomorrow.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#803
post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usb-c sounds cool for now. But what about when a new port comes out and Apple can’t use it because the EU still mandates to use the old one?

Good point. Laws are immutable and can never be changed.

It doesn't really matter if laws can or can't be changed, the question is whether or not regulations imposing a standard on manufacturers on what kind of connector they put on their phone should exist at all.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#804

I wonder if they considered an "iPhone Europe Edition" - USB-C, side loading, physical SIM cards. Sounds like a good phone!

It will be quite undesirable to distribute apps through a means where economies of scale are not available for example if there is no US market

if you’re nvidia and want to provide a proper cloud gaming app (not browser based, which has resolution limitations), it might be worth it. Apple’s conditions tend to be quite restrictive (which is why they’re having problems in the first place), so I somehow suspect there’s a rather large market, and the eu is very large anyway.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#805
post #632
post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you can just download the eSIM If we disregard the fact that many older but still usable phones don’t support e-sim (which was the original point), what do you mean ”just” download the e-sim? At least in my country, getting an e-sim is a pretty involved process which requires secure authentication, and specifically in my case that authentication would be gone with the now-broken phone if one didn’t have the foresig…

I have Orange Flex. I can just install the app on a new phone, login with email, and have new eSIM issued and installed within a minute.

Lucky for you, but I don't have that option. I also like having the ability to move a SIM between my 5G CPE and my phone. Not gonna replace a 2 year old, €700 CPE just to try and chase eSIM dreams.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#806

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

A non-app-store web app on iPhone has been able to be full screen since initial release of Home Screen web apps. When you launch from Home Screen, it gets the whole screen. See the Xbox Cloud Gaming "app" for instance, which is outside the App Store, just launch then "Add to Home Screen", close, and run from Home Screen. https://www.xbox.com/en-us/play As for what can be done with browsers, see the venerable iCab but…

For xcloud, the resolution is limited (by apple’s streaming rules, and not by MS) so it’s not as open as it looks.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#807
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s good about physical SIMs? I do like apple for daring to improve the status quo there, so I want my European Edition with only e-simsz

Recently moved to a new country (non-EU). The carrier I'm using does not offer eSIM and shipped me a physical SIM card. This is not an outlier, I have a couple of physical SIM cards, some US, that I wouldn't be able to use if the phone was eSIM only, like the recent US iPhone. Also moving a eSIM from iOS device to non-iOS device (for example to plug into my secondary Android) is a massive PITA. I always have to re-is…

The eSIM is all about cost savings and more control for them, sold to you as more convenience for you. I'm not giving up my SIM!

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#808

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usb-c sounds cool for now. But what about when a new port comes out and Apple can’t use it because the EU still mandates to use the old one?

There will never be another one. Who would put R&D into something the EU might not approve?

USB-C is only mandatory for specific classes of devices. Presumably, if some new technology would have a good chance to provide a substantial improvement, it would also make sense to develop it for other devices. In addition, it’s possible to develop compatible extensions to USB-C, meaning technical progress isn’t “frozen” at the current USB-C version.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#809
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is naive. Apple doesn't protect you. The prime example is that apple gives apps unfettered access to network connections. And YOU are unable to block this in any meaningful way. What apple doesn't give you is the ability to manage your own phone. You cannot really manage what apps are doing yourself. You cannot even find out what apps are doing. And you definitely will not be able to manage apple apps, they get…

> The prime example is that apple gives apps unfettered access to network connections. (…) You cannot even find out what apps are doing. Settings -> Privacy & Security -> App Privacy Report It shows you per application what data they are accessing, which sensors they are accessing and which domains the app is contacting. It also reports when they were doing this and how often. You can even export this data as a JSON…

  nicehost.benigndomain.com IN CNAME creepy.domain.biz
(or other similar techniques)

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#810

Apple's exclusivity on allowing and deciding what goes on the AppStore and on the iOS was their way of controlling the user experience and their way to ensure future sales of iPhones. They didn't want that iOS, AppStore and iPhones get flooded with low quality apps. Similar way of thinking that I know of was Valve and Steam, where Steam users needed to Greenlit a game before it came to the Steam store. Imo Steam had…

> They didn't want that iOS, AppStore and iPhones get flooded with low quality apps.

Well, they failed in that.

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