Earlier quoted context omitted.
Games on steam are not rented
Can you resell a game you've 'bought' on steam to someone else?
Not yet.
iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
611–620 of 1001 posts
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#612Earlier quoted context omitted.
you seem to be completely sure that everyone loves and wants pwa newsflash: many users hate pwa, they prefer native apps
newsflash to your newsflash: most „native” apps are lazy wrappers around shitty webviews anyway.
My rule of thumb is that for any application that relies on an internet connection for most of its functionality, I'd rather just use a real web browser.
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#613Earlier quoted context omitted.
As far as I'm concerned if you 'bought' something, it should be yours to do as you please, including reselling and destroying it. If you didn't buy something, but rented it - for example a game on Steam or Epic Games store - then it should damned say so. It's a straight up lie to say you purchased something if you didn't.
Games on steam are not rented
The very fact that you say so basically proves the parent's point: you believe that you bought a game (or a Kindle ebook or whatever), whereas in fact you have zero control over it and if the vendor decides you can't use it, you can't. It's not a theory, it's practical reality, already tested by Adobe.
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#614Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you're saying Apple knows what I like and what I don't ? It should be my choice
Apple knows what they think is good. It turns out lots of people agree or they wouldn’t be so successful. You have a choice, if you don’t like it buy an Android phone. Or a Sailfish phone, or a KDE phone our one of the other open source phones where the only “apps” are low quality PWA crap. Look how successful they are.
> You have a choice, if you don’t like it buy an Android phone. Or a Sailfish phone, or a KDE phone our one of the other open source phones where the only “apps” are low quality PWA crap. Look how successful they are.
Do you think that's because of PWA UX being inherently crappy and not, say, the fact that those projects don't have billion (or trillion) USD companies behind them? I think you're mistaking the effect for the cause.
PWAs are a way of lowering the barrier of entry for new devs and that's important if you want to achieve any scale.
> You have a choice
It's kind of a like a thug saying that I have a choice between being slapped in the face, kicked in the butt or subscribing to his Twilight fanfic podcast. Yes, I do have a choice, but neither of the choices is really something I'm looking forward to. Betamax vs. VHS comes to mind too.
I think the line of thinking in the parent comment is a bit naive. There's nothing inherently wrong with PWAs from the UX pov if we take monopolies and FUD into account. That's the reason it is harder to build a PWA with really good UX now (harder but not impossible).
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#615I think Apple has also done good things with their strict app store policies (from my consumer point of view). Apple has been for example putting limits on data collection and tracking. The main mechanism is to kick apps out from Apps store if they don't play by the rules. I'm worried that side loading will be a step back here. Strong players, like Facebook, may just take their app away from the official store and di…
This is naive. Apple doesn't protect you. The prime example is that apple gives apps unfettered access to network connections. And YOU are unable to block this in any meaningful way. What apple doesn't give you is the ability to manage your own phone. You cannot really manage what apps are doing yourself. You cannot even find out what apps are doing. And you definitely will not be able to manage apple apps, they get…
So because they don’t have fine grained permissions around network connections (which sounds like a usability nightmare) they don’t protect you?
What about:
- Apple’s limiting of advertising identifiers and requiring permission to track users across apps
- increasingly fine grained location access including ‘Only allow once’ and warnings when an app is tracking you in background
- sandboxed photo access so apps don’t get access to all your photos
- requiring developers submit privacy questionnaires with their app updates and showing how data is collected in each app
- supporting creating private email aliases for signing up for services
Just to name a few in the last few years.
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#616Earlier quoted context omitted.
For years Google been stamping "standards" one after another even though other browser vendors were against many of them and they end up being Chrome-only. No matter what Apple itself does Safari being major non-Chromium browser helps Firefox a lot just by existing and having huge marketshare.
How does Apple dragging their feet on implementing the Web Push notification standard, that is necessary for PWAs, in anyway help in that situation? Literally every browser except Safari implemented the the standard, and not out of some noble anti-Google crusade. PWAs threaten the App Store monopoly's moneyhose. How does Apple releasing proprietary web standards just for Safari, like Safari Push Notifications, help i…
Actually the iphone was planned to use PWAs in the start, but Steve Jobs switched to native apps after realizing that performance and usability was going to be poor.
He was right and still is. Not that it's impossible to implement a good PWA, all you have to do is manage your state and interface in a way that no interaction takes longer than 50ms to compute. But most developers are not able to deliver than, most don't even think about UIs in this sort of way.
And V8 GC behaviour is still terrible and an unbelievable battery hog.
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#617Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why do you think it's ever better to have a device that doesn't ever allow sideloading apps, over one that lets you, the owner, decide whether or not to allow sideloading apps?
Because these restrictions on iOS are legitimately valuable security controls. Apple decides what functionality is exposed to applications, decides who is allowed to publish applications, screens the applications they do publish, and ensures that I have the ability to consent to the permissions they are required to explicitly and in clear language request. I can safely install any application I want off the App Store…
>Because these restrictions on iOS are legitimately valuable security controls.
Excellent. Let me, the owner of the device, choose how to use it. If I want it to be "less secure" that is my choice.
>If Apple created a methodology for circumventing this process, all of a sudden it is something that I have to worry about
Then do not use side-loaded app stores if you do not want to. Your device, your choice.
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#618Even if this is small progress the headlines and framing of the story are still doublespeak. Installing applications on your computer is the normal state of things. Walled gardens and not having control of your computer is the new weird thing. The word "sideloading" is a feudal concept and it's unquestioned use is dangerous for society. Properly stated this story title is, "Installing applications on iOS 17 might be…
We focus too much on criticizing language instead of ideas. IMHO, this just leads to tiresome and hollow debates. So, I’ll call that out here. Also, your proposed rewording isn’t correct either because installing applications is already allowed. You can debate the App Store all you want, but it definitely does let you install apps. On topic: This is silly and Apple should allow sideloading. I don’t buy the security a…
>criticizing language instead of ideas.
I have no idea how you came to this conclusion. It's obvious that I'm criticising the idea of "sideloading" not the word. You can call it some other arrangement of letters and the concept is still very dangerous.
And in this case it is also definitely true that apple does not let you install applications without someone paying them $100+ and their continued approval. The "let" is the key here.
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#619Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you're saying Apple knows what I like and what I don't ? It should be my choice
Apple knows what they think is good. It turns out lots of people agree or they wouldn’t be so successful. You have a choice, if you don’t like it buy an Android phone. Or a Sailfish phone, or a KDE phone our one of the other open source phones where the only “apps” are low quality PWA crap. Look how successful they are.
The fact that they're successful doesn't mean that they're right about every single decision they make. This kind of reasoning is inane.
Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe
#620I think the central question here is: .) whether you buy a phone as a piece of hardware and then own that hardware - which gives you certain rights regarding the usage of that owned hardware or .) whether you are just paying some sort of admission fee to a tightly controlled service, and are basically "lent" a piece of hardware that you have no ownership rights over. All the other stuff about walled gardens, monopoli…
As far as I'm concerned if you 'bought' something, it should be yours to do as you please, including reselling and destroying it. If you didn't buy something, but rented it - for example a game on Steam or Epic Games store - then it should damned say so. It's a straight up lie to say you purchased something if you didn't.
Do you buy movie tickets, or do you rent them?