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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#81

Post by foolfoolz »

onlypositive wrote: post #65
aikinai wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing whatever you want on your computer is not necessarily the natural state; it’s not even how the industry started and it’s not how any other industry or devices work. I also prefer to be able to do whatever I want with my own devices, but pretending like it’s an inalienable right, or a natural state, or has no disadvantages is disingenuous and not helpful to the debate.

Of course it's the natural state and an inalienable right to modify or do with the things you own in the way you see fit. When was the last time you asked the builders association if you could remodel your kitchen? When was the last time you asked Honda if you could put new mags on your car? This whole idea that devices aren't owned when you purchase them is asinine and and insult to humanity. Your counter arguments…

the o. s. isn’t a hammer. it’s a service

i’m sure you can find an o. s. that lets you do whatever you want. but will it be updated regularly with security fixes? will it support the latest connectivity technology like 5g? will it have built in support for the latest compression formats to take high res pics and videos? will it work anywhere in the world?

if it does sure. go use it. i don’t think this exists and i’m happy to pay apple for a new phone that does this and upgrade every 5 years

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#82

Post by SparkyMcUnicorn »

auggierose wrote: post #69
ihatepython wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think like you, but not anymore. I am not interested in installing random software from other people, I want to install my own software to be able to have full control over my own device. I don't care about 'regular users'. I care about myself.

You can do that already.

If I pay the fee and/or use something like altstore?

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#83

Post by wilg »

superkuh wrote: post #14

Even if this is small progress the headlines and framing of the story are still doublespeak. Installing applications on your computer is the normal state of things. Walled gardens and not having control of your computer is the new weird thing. The word "sideloading" is a feudal concept and it's unquestioned use is dangerous for society. Properly stated this story title is, "Installing applications on iOS 17 might be…

We focus too much on criticizing language instead of ideas. IMHO, this just leads to tiresome and hollow debates. So, I’ll call that out here.

Also, your proposed rewording isn’t correct either because installing applications is already allowed. You can debate the App Store all you want, but it definitely does let you install apps.

On topic: This is silly and Apple should allow sideloading. I don’t buy the security argument because the security comes from the sandbox, not Apple’s poorly-run approval process.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#84

Post by hayst4ck »

heavyset_go wrote: post #54
miramba wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to think the same way, but not anymore. The amount and variety of attacks on the devices have increased too much in the last years. The device could be encrypted, money could be stolen, some malware could sit silently and do surveillance for who knows. I always wanted to install software on my iPhone without the manufacturing company deciding what I can and can not have (according to californian standards!), b…

The App Store is a poor line of defense, because it isn't about user security, it's about securing Apple's billion dollar app distribution monopoly moneyhose. User security is just a rhetorical afterthought. When we forgo real system safety in favor of gatekeeping corporate revenue, that isn't security. In fact, such a scheme is responsible for mass distribution of malware. Apple's App Store is responsible for distri…

As a further separate but distinct response:

You are justifying why a monopoly app store is bad by showing a hack that resulted from downloading an app (xcode) from a source other than the app store.

  Security firm Palo Alto Networks surmised that because network speeds 
  were slower in China, developers in the country looked for local 
  copies of the Apple Xcode development environment, and encountered 
  altered versions that had been posted on domestic web sites. This 
  opened the door for the malware to be inserted into high profile apps 
  used on iOS devices.
I think you are also ignoring that apples app store position made it possible to authoritatively reach out to all who were effected as well as enact other remediation efforts.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#85

Post by kaba0 »

edandersen wrote: post #76

I wonder if they considered an "iPhone Europe Edition" - USB-C, side loading, physical SIM cards. Sounds like a good phone!

What’s good about physical SIMs? I do like apple for daring to improve the status quo there, so I want my European Edition with only e-simsz

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#86

Post by daveidol »

miramba wrote: post #47
superkuh wrote: post #14

Even if this is small progress the headlines and framing of the story are still doublespeak. Installing applications on your computer is the normal state of things. Walled gardens and not having control of your computer is the new weird thing. The word "sideloading" is a feudal concept and it's unquestioned use is dangerous for society. Properly stated this story title is, "Installing applications on iOS 17 might be…

I used to think the same way, but not anymore. The amount and variety of attacks on the devices have increased too much in the last years. The device could be encrypted, money could be stolen, some malware could sit silently and do surveillance for who knows. I always wanted to install software on my iPhone without the manufacturing company deciding what I can and can not have (according to californian standards!), b…

We should probably get rid of Safari / web browsers too in that case!

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#87

Post by vivegi »

thesuitonym wrote: post #74
vivegi wrote: post #70

From the article > In addition, developers may have to pay extra if they want their apps to be available outside of the iOS App Store, Gurman says. The statement is a bit ambiguous. Is it pay Apple extra or pay extra to the 3rd party to have their app listed in the 3rd party app store? The former doesn't sound right; It is probably FUD. Logically, a 3rd party app store could compete on significantly reduced fees rela…

If I were being extremely charitable on the phrasing, I think they might mean, for example, if you pay Apple 30% (or whatever the going rate is) you might have to pay an external app store an additional number. Or, it might mean Apple will charge higher rates for apps that are also available on other app stores? Not sure if that's entirely legal, but since when have pesky things like the law stopped companies as big…

I agree. As a dev, if I list my $3/mo subscription app on the Apple App store and they take 30% and I have 100k customers and I double-list the app in the 3rd party store + the Apple app store and gain 20k customers from the 3rd party store and the 3rd party store charges 10%, I have saved (30% - 10%) x 20k x $3/mo = $12k/mo on the new customers.

If I release my next version update and post it to just the 3rd party app store, I could then theoretically move the 120k customers to download the update from the 3rd party store and then save $72k/mo.

That is what Apple is afraid of. I think.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#88

Post by kaba0 »

AlfeG wrote: post #68
syrrim wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're presumably claiming that european devices will be less secure.

Or usability of this feature would be so frustrating, that no one will use. Constant security popups on every start, very limited available API for apps, etc...

That would just give them a huge fine.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#89

Post by kaba0 »

nomel wrote: post #10
hammyhavoc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why couldn't both be true?

How would app review work?

AppStore pretty much only does a “grep -r porn” on every app, hardly meaningful “security”. If anything, it’s best at mysteriously flagging competitor apps.
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