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CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

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Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#601

Post by xienze »

theK wrote: post #110
Akronymus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not have a choice in the matter as more and more countries are thinking of/implementing ICE bans in the near future.

I’m afraid these bans get systematically sabotaged by well funded ice lobby groups. Just look at what happened to the EU’s ice ban for personal vehicles. Spoiler: while new gasoline burning cars are technically banned after 2035 it will be completely legal to sell new gasoline burning cars by labelling them e-fuel only…

> I’m afraid these bans get systematically sabotaged by well funded ice lobby groups.

They'll be sabotaged by reality. Thinking ICE cars and gas stations will become a fading memory by 2035 is wishful thinking. Politicians get big headlines and praise for proposing ICE bans and such, but as the date draws closer the reality of "OK, maybe we're not quite there yet" sets in and the date will be pushed back again and again. There is a very long tail with ICE, and it's going to take a very, very long time to replace them. Wholesale upheavals of established technology are difficult.

For a noteworthy example in another domain, IPv4 has been on its last legs for how long now?

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#602

Post by zip1234 »

0xy wrote: post #65
Akronymus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not have a choice in the matter as more and more countries are thinking of/implementing ICE bans in the near future.

They're unlikely to succeed because if the massive tax on poor people (ICE bans) actually gets implemented, all of the poor people who are forced to buy an unaffordable EV will vote for populists promising to unwind the bans.

The very poorest don't even drive and are also disproportionately impacted by pollution from driving. The strata above that buys used cars.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#603

Post by lilililililili »

matsemann wrote: post #101
paganel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have a choice because, on paper, we do have a choice in choosing those countries’ politicians. I know I’ll never give my vote to a politician keen on banning gasoline cars. It’s sadly also true that the technocrats actually taking those decisions are a lot less directly accountable, but nothing that a second “yellow vests” movement won’t be able to fix.

Why is it so important for you to be able to pollute a bit more when commuting?

[flagged]

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#604

Post by justin_oaks »

legohead wrote: post #587
bagels wrote: post #2

"CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg which it says will go into mass production this year" This is a lot more credible than most of the battery stories, because CATL is already producing a ton of batteries, lending them some credibility. This is a little under 2x the density of current batteries.

My litmus test for battery/solar stories is: can you buy it? If not, consider it bullshit. At least these guys are announcing production.

This is why I generally skip over any "breakthrough" science/tech stories on HN.

News articles on breakthrough discoveries are mostly bullshit and even when they aren't, most of the time they don't affect my life in the slightest because the tech is impractical or expensive.

It may be interesting to read about science discoveries, but I don't want to take the time to sort out the bullshit from what's real just to find out that the breakthrough is irrelevant to me and society at large.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#605

Post by jwr »

onion2k wrote: post #185
msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

BMW claim that a diesel 3 series will get 61mpg. Volkswagen reckon a Golf 2.0 TDI will do 68mpg. Electric is still significantly better, but you didn't need pick a terrible diesel car as an example.

I had a BMW series 3. 61mpg is 3.8l/100km and that's… dreamland. You can probably achieve that in ideal conditions, driving 50km/h on a highway.

Very few people check the facts, and the only reliable way to know yourself is to take notes at the pump: gas pumped vs km travelled. I did check for a while and the numbers were quite different :-)

On a related note, for the VW ID.4, the manufacturer states 17kWh/100km which is actually achievable (much to my surprise) in city driving when it isn't cold. My real numbers are closer to 21kWh/100km. This goes up really quickly if you exceed 130km/h.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#606

Post by dang »

bagels wrote: post #2

"CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg which it says will go into mass production this year" This is a lot more credible than most of the battery stories, because CATL is already producing a ton of batteries, lending them some credibility. This is a little under 2x the density of current batteries.

Ok, we'll use that as the title above. Thanks!

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#607

Post by thangalin »

The Hyundai Kona EV battery has a energy density of 141.3 Wh/kg and range of 414 km, give or take. 500 / 141.3 * 414 km = 1,465 km.

Is that around the expected range, presuming a new battery is a drop-in replacement?

Lithium-air has an energy density of 11,140 Wh/kg, yielding 32,639 km, which doesn't seem possible.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#608

Post by tpmx »

slashdev wrote: post #494
pl90087 wrote: post #431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that the same thing? Every ounce of oil coming out of the groud and getting burned ends up as CO2 in the atmosphere. Banning that has nothing to do with ICEs. You can run an ICE on synthetic fuels. It's not as energy-efficient but only half the efficiency from a renewable source is still better than "full" efficiency from a fossil source. If you _really_ must use an ICE, there will be a way. It won't be cheap,…

It’s more or less the same thing because if your fuel price doubles you’re going to scrap that car and buy an electric. Nobody is forcing you to do so, it just doesn’t make much sense to keep driving that ICE. When everybody is making that decision parts and maintenance will be more expensive and harder to come by too - accelerating the transition.

IIRC it was discussed as closer to a 3x price jump (but don't quote me on that).

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#609

Post by bagels »

walrus01 wrote: post #254
gibolt wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Current mass produced batteries, which tend to hover around 260-300 Wh/kg. Higher density (but still under 500) are available, but in far smaller quantities for a very high cost. The exciting part of this announcement is that if anyone can scale manufacturing, it is them.

What battery pack that I can buy right now is 300Wh/kg? Sincerely curious because that's 50Wh/kg above what people are using in some very expensive UAVs.

Buy a Tesla Model Y and you'll have just under 300.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#610

Post by rootusrootus »

usrusr wrote: post #572
jackmott42 wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is why batteries have become so much better now than they were 20 years ago.

Have they? Other than lithium based batteries getting cheaper per kilogram so that year by year, more battery use cases have switched over from inherently worse chemistries? Even just ten years ago, eneloop were still the hot thing for many applications outside of laptops, mobile phones and the odd Tesla (ten years ago was when Model S was still the fresh new successor to the converted Lotus)

Is eneloop not still very much a thing? Maybe not the brand, but the technology. The vast, vast majority of consumer devices using standardized battery sizes are AA or AAA, and that means NiMH. To go lithium means 18650, and I don't really see much of that happening outside flashlights and other niche products.
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