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CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

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Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#491

Post by hoofhearted »

wuming2 wrote: post #476

I do wonder sometimes if scraping the million plus of components, produced and assembled with great care into a ICE car and still relatively new, makes any sense. Re-powering seems no brainer to keep millions of new cars out of the scrapyard. And avoid the environmentally unsustainable production of slightly newer cars. Reusing them whole, engine included, is ideal. If battery re-powering, synthetic gasoline and hydr…

I believe that current car racing trends will paint a picture of the future of automobiles.

The hybrid area is among us, and the technology used is so well thought out and advanced.

Hybrid as in “go incredibly fast”, and not “save gas” like as with a Prius.

Currently in F1 and the new prototype classes, they are using electrification in conjunction with the internal combustion engine to create more instantly available horsepower.

They are using twin turbo 6 cylinder engines, and anything that has large rotational mass has been electrified with motors. The turbos, crankshaft, and camshafts all have hybrid electric assist motors built into them to combat inertia. They then have incredibly engineered heat recovery systems built into the brakes and turbos. They collect the heat and convert it into electric to recharge the battery. Additionally, when the electric assist motors aren’t providing power to their components, their function is reversed and they become generators that also feed to the battery.

I don’t believe the streets have ever really even seen electric assist turbos and crankshafts lol. Ford only recently realized that you could make more fuel efficient and reliable power with less displacement using forced induction.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#492

Post by dalyons »

mdp2021 wrote: post #227
geysersam wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone want to use e-fuel in 2035 instead of electricity? (Except for "luxury" brands that just want to be special to distinguish themselves from the rabble.)

> Why would anyone want to use e-fuel in 2035 instead of electricity It will depend on their needs and if the device covers them. For example (as said already even here): long distance travel, practicality of refuelling (no, the need of some will not be fulfilled by leaving the car in charge nightly), decent technology (e.g. some will refuse to own an internet connected vehicle).

Long distance and refueling will be solved by 2035. They’re close now. I’m will to bet all new gas cars are going to be internet connect too, it’s already heading that way, and has little to do with EVs

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#494

Post by slashdev »

pl90087 wrote: post #431
tpmx wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The urban greens in the previous Swedish government coalition wants to ban fossil-based petrol from being sold starting 2030 - which economically speaking is kind of the same thing.

How is that the same thing? Every ounce of oil coming out of the groud and getting burned ends up as CO2 in the atmosphere. Banning that has nothing to do with ICEs. You can run an ICE on synthetic fuels. It's not as energy-efficient but only half the efficiency from a renewable source is still better than "full" efficiency from a fossil source. If you _really_ must use an ICE, there will be a way. It won't be cheap,…

It’s more or less the same thing because if your fuel price doubles you’re going to scrap that car and buy an electric.

Nobody is forcing you to do so, it just doesn’t make much sense to keep driving that ICE. When everybody is making that decision parts and maintenance will be more expensive and harder to come by too - accelerating the transition.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#495

Post by avernon »

vidarh wrote: post #359
audunw wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about runway length. Noise reduction would also make it easier to use smaller local airports. Electric aircraft are already more quiet, but there's probably room for even more reduction by using ducted fans or toroidal propellers. We may also see a return to more of a hub-and-spoke model. Fly from a smaller, local airport close to you. Fly to some hub near the half-way point, switch to a plane that take…

The thought of a return to more of a hub-and-spoke model sounds like a total nightmare. It'd take a huge price difference before I'd consider that, personally (EDIT: As in, I usually check "direct flights only" or equivalent and only relent if the cost is ridiculously much higher). Then again my perspective is being near multiple large international airports, so maybe that might appeal to some.

Hub and spoke is primarily used to fill large planes. If you have 10-20 passenger electric planes you'd land at some random county airport, eat a hamburger or a taco while the plane recharges, then get back on the same plane and finish the trip. So you'd have a layover like hub and spoke but all the concerns about missing connections go away.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#496

Post by steveBK123 »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #469
steveBK123 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relative efficiencies also explain why city/highway efficiency is inverted between EV & ICE. Gasoline is rather energy dense, but the ICE is rather wasteful. There is a certain base load of energy being generated by an ICE engine, regardless of if you are moving or how slow you go. This is why carmakers experimented with things like rapid stop/start engines, regen batteries&motors, etc. ICE becomes more efficient as…

Maximum heating power in my 2015 Tesla Model S 70D is 6 kW. Travelling for 100 km at 100 km/h costs about 25 kWh. I drive in shirtsleeves and barefoot in the Norwegian mountains at -20⁰C and the heater doesn't seem to be running hard. So unless you are traveling in severe arctic conditions the heater really isn't more than a few percent of the load. Teslabjørn has a video where he turned his Model X into a sauna gett…

Had a model 3 for 4 years, have another EV now. It really depends on the type of driving. Sure, if you are making a long road trip at high speeds then its probably negligible though still noticeable.

But being in Northeast US with constant traffic.. I used to have to park outdoors so the car would get cold soaked down to 20F in winter, and never really have sufficient time to warm up unless I was going for a 1hr+ drive.

Winter driving local roads, below-25mph stop&go, 2-5mi trips running errands.. Could see some really crazy consumption numbers pop up like 500-800Wh/mi+ versus the rated 250Wh/mi. Now it doesn't necessarily amount to much because it's on short single-digit mile trips, but it does happen. This stacks with the general cold weather efficiency losses of EVs..

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#497

Post by jjoonathan »

the_third_wave wrote: post #400
XorNot wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the term 'global warming' has been swapped for the latter since the average global temperature has gone down for a number of years after an earlier steady rise You're just going to throw that out there? You'll cite the Fischer-Tropsch process, but not "actually global temperatures are declining"? Here[1]. The temperature hasn't gone down. The narrative hasn't changed from global warming because of this (the term wa…

You are pointing at a single year, I am pointing at a trend [1,2]. The trend had been for the average global temperature to rise up to 2012 to 2016 - depending on which measurements you look at. After that period the average global temperature has declined by 0.06°C per year up to 2022. This change in the trend made the "global warming" moniker easily attacked "because the temperature are clearly going down". This is…

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/understanding-climate/...

It's a much longer trend than 2012-2016. I remember 2011, the last time conservatives were playing the "global warming has paused" game, but then oops! It returned to trend. No Ls were acknowledged, of course.

What do the radiative flux measurements say this time around? They measure the derivative directly and are upstream of the most chaotic mixing process. Last time they said "sorry, heat is still piling up, globe's still warming." They were correct. What do they say this time?

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#498

Post by mdp2021 »

dalyons wrote: post #492
mdp2021 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would anyone want to use e-fuel in 2035 instead of electricity It will depend on their needs and if the device covers them. For example (as said already even here): long distance travel, practicality of refuelling (no, the need of some will not be fulfilled by leaving the car in charge nightly), decent technology (e.g. some will refuse to own an internet connected vehicle).

Long distance and refueling will be solved by 2035. They’re close now. I’m will to bet all new gas cars are going to be internet connect too, it’s already heading that way, and has little to do with EVs

> I’m will to bet all new gas cars ... little to do

Would you drive them? Would you own an internet connected door, vehicle, pacemaker? Some would rather find the keys out of the asylum.

You say «little to do», but the point was that we are informed of «gas cars» without wireless connection, whereas word is that for some reason all electric vehicles seem to be. We know that some «gas cars» are spared, but they say all electric ones will be bound to the wave of improper engineering, so this defines some hope or way out for the traditional making and rules out the new one.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#499

Post by mharig »

hutzlibu wrote: post #292
masklinn wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness the fluid ounces are also different, an Imperial (english) fluid ounce is 28.41306mL, while a US Customary fl oz is 29.5735mL. So the Imperial floz is 96% the US customary, not enough to account for having 25% more of them in a gallon, but it does lead to the Imperial gallon only being 20% larger than the customary gallon. But wait there’s more! The US also has the “food labelling” fluid ounce which is no…

And yet we claim to live in a science based society. I mean, there are a million things, that do not need universal standards, but standards are imposed anyway. But where one standard would be really helpful, like scientific values, we have many. And some people would rather go to prison, than adopt. (I think that happened in the UK, after they force switched to metric)

Not only they might go to prison, they may risk values and lives of others, too:

https://usma.org/unit-mixups

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#500

Post by dd36 »

osigurdson wrote: post #485
msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

This is definitely not an apples-to-apples comparison. With an EV the ball is already at the top of the hill and merely needs to be rolled down, with an ICE car, the ball has to be pushed up the hill first. The power plant does all of the heavy lifting for the EV. Not a mark against EVs of course - it kind of just makes sense. I'm sure future generations will laugh that every vehicle used to have its own on-board pow…

It’s not cheaper.
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