CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg • Hacker News Board

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#291

Post by sidewndr46 » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:22 AM UTC

cultureswitch wrote: post #204

theK wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m afraid these bans get systematically sabotaged by well funded ice lobby groups. Just look at what happened to the EU’s ice ban for personal vehicles. Spoiler: while new gasoline burning cars are technically banned after 2035 it will be completely legal to sell new gasoline burning cars by labelling them e-fuel only…

The timelines for ICE bans within a decade are ridiculous from a technology and market standpoint and terrible for the environment. The best car technology is the one you don't use much. And we already have decades of cars in good enough condition to be driven weekly rather than daily. EVs will barely scratch the surface of environmental issues with transportation. And they will create a new range of supply problems…

It's particular ironic in China, where >50% of their domestic energy production is apparently from coal. That being said, it could improve metro air quality a large degree because I'm guessing coal power plants aren't built in downtown Beijing.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#292

Post by hutzlibu » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:22 AM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #270

Aromasin wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK also does for some God awful reason (especially infuriating considering it's sold by the litre at the petrol station). In the United States and some other countries, a gallon is equal to 128 fluid ounces or 3.785 liters. Meanwhile, in the United Kingdom and some Commonwealth countries, a gallon is equal to 160 fluid ounces or 4.546 liters.

In fairness the fluid ounces are also different, an Imperial (english) fluid ounce is 28.41306mL, while a US Customary fl oz is 29.5735mL. So the Imperial floz is 96% the US customary, not enough to account for having 25% more of them in a gallon, but it does lead to the Imperial gallon only being 20% larger than the customary gallon. But wait there’s more! The US also has the “food labelling” fluid ounce which is no…

And yet we claim to live in a science based society.

I mean, there are a million things, that do not need universal standards, but standards are imposed anyway.

But where one standard would be really helpful, like scientific values, we have many. And some people would rather go to prison, than adopt. (I think that happened in the UK, after they force switched to metric)

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#293

Post by sidewndr46 » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:23 AM UTC

actionfromafar wrote: post #206

prox wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wondering… Is it possible to make tiny refineries for say a town or area? So locally produced or is that a environmental nightmare?

Many engines can be converted to run on ethanol.

This gets thrown out quite a bit but I don't really buy it. If it is not designed for alcohol, it probably isn't going to work. Alcohol has too many weird interactions with stuff like aluminum.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#294

Post by chemmail » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:24 AM UTC

jillesvangurp wrote: post #92

dzhiurgis wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we had electric aircraft for half a century, but thats just toys. The variable is how many passengers can you fit.

Nope, the variable is cost per passenger. Large jets only exist because fuel is really expensive. The cost per passenger gets astronomical with smaller planes. That's why only rich people can afford that. Big planes are more economical. Because of the fuel. This is simply not true with electrical planes. A mega watt hour of power is about 60-100$. And much cheaper than that with renewables. Not at retail prices of co…

Airlines spend about 1/4 of their expenses of fuel alone. If they can reduce that, it will go a long way.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#295

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:28 AM UTC

msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

[deleted]

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#296

Post by goodpoint » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:29 AM UTC

0xy wrote: post #65

Akronymus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not have a choice in the matter as more and more countries are thinking of/implementing ICE bans in the near future.

They're unlikely to succeed because if the massive tax on poor people (ICE bans) actually gets implemented, all of the poor people who are forced to buy an unaffordable EV will vote for populists promising to unwind the bans.

> massive tax on poor people (ICE bans)

Don't blame EV and or the environment for this. Car culture in the US created unsustainable cities and destroyed public transportation.

Car ownership itself has always been a regressive tax.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#297

Post by FabHK » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:29 AM UTC

Minor pet peeve:

Energy density is energy per volume (in GJ/m^3, for example, or Wh/litre, or whatever).

-> "X density" = X per volume

What's discussed here is specific energy, ie energy per mass (in Wh/kg, or whatever).

-> "specific X" = X per mass

The latter is particularly relevant for aviation, needless to say.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#298

Post by gambiting » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:31 AM UTC

msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

How the hell a Chevy Cruze gets 31mpg with a diesel??? A VW Passat TDI will easily get 60+ imperial MPG, I've had it get close to 70 on long runs(that's 50 and 58 American MPG respectively).

Are American diesels this inefficient?? Looking at pictures online the Chevy cruze doesn't seem like a bigger/heavier car than a Passat, so what gives??

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#299

Post by mvanbaak » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:32 AM UTC

msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

> 13.2 km/l

For diesel, this is really really bad. Most gasoline cars will run more economic than this, let alone diesel. If your diesel runs less then 17 to 18 km/l something is wrong.

(my opinion is based on how things are in .nl, other parts of the world can and will be different of course)

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#300

Post by giantg2 » Fri, Apr 21, 2023, 10:34 AM UTC

1200wh/kg is when it will get really interesting to me. Half the weight and double the range would be great. Plus, electrified ultralight "aircraft" start to have numerous advantages over the traditional 2 stoke engines.