Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

thedriven.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 919 posts

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#191

Post by Moldoteck »

bsaul wrote: post #136
pelorat wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In ~15 years if you buy an ICE you also need to afford the gas.

in 15 years there will be so few ice cars on the roads that gas could very well be cheaper than electricity. Finding a gas station may be problematic ( although i doubt truck will move to electricity that soon)

I would say it depends on the country. Russia is still a major exporter of petroleum goods and can make the price very appealing to it's neighbors (but yeah, after they started the war, the situation is not so strightforward)

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#192

Post by ly3xqhl8g9 »

yread wrote: post #179
ly3xqhl8g9 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Various theoretical energy densities of batteries and gasoline: lead acid 123 Wh/kg lithium ion 250 Wh/kg zinc-oxygen 1,084 Wh/kg sodium-oxygen 1,605 Wh/kg lithium-sulfur 2,600 Wh/kg magnesium-oxygen 6,800 Wh/kg aluminium-oxygen 8,100 Wh/kg lithium-air 11,140 Wh/kg gasoline 12,700 Wh/kg from 2022, Asad A. Naqvi et. al., Aprotic lithium air batteries with oxygen-selective membranes , Table 1, https://link.springer.com…

And Uranium-235 about 1GWh/kg EDIT: this is for nuclear fuel enriched to 3% in a normal (not breeder) reactor 35000 MJ per 10g pellet https://whatisnuclear.com/energy-density.html Only a tiny fraction of the total energy is actually used

Uranium-235 is around 24 GWh/kg [1] (24,000,000,000 Wh).

[1] https://www.euronuclear.org/glossary/fuel-comparison/

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#193

Post by Akronymus »

nixass wrote: post #96
Akronymus wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not have a choice in the matter as more and more countries are thinking of/implementing ICE bans in the near future.

No, not for another ~15 years and then I'll still be able to buy ICE car. EVs in current state are not so good and what's even worse new ICE cars are becoming shittier and shittier because of restrictions imposing on them

My biggest problem is that they target the individuals, rather than the actual big polluters. (Hell, carbon footprint was coined by the oil lobby.)

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#194

Post by maccard »

onion2k wrote: post #185
msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

BMW claim that a diesel 3 series will get 61mpg. Volkswagen reckon a Golf 2.0 TDI will do 68mpg. Electric is still significantly better, but you didn't need pick a terrible diesel car as an example.

Even more confusingly, what the US calls a gallon isn't the same as what other countries call the gallon. It's about a 20% difference.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#195

Post by ketzu »

elevaet wrote: post #84
bagels wrote: post #2

"CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg which it says will go into mass production this year" This is a lot more credible than most of the battery stories, because CATL is already producing a ton of batteries, lending them some credibility. This is a little under 2x the density of current batteries.

> battery with 500 Wh/kg Wow, that's amazing, creeping up towards the energy density of gasoline at around 1200 Wh/kg Of course you don't have to lug around the spent gasoline after you've used it, but that's really the problem too innit?

> gasoline at around 1200 Wh/kg

Aren't you missing a 0 there? Gasonline should be at 12 kWh/kg instead of 1.2.

[1] https://chemistry.beloit.edu/edetc/SlideShow/slides/energy/d...

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#196

Post by Swannie »

mcapodici wrote: post #44
microjim wrote: post #5

Cool! What didn’t occur to me until I learnt it was that you get a multiplicative benefit with energy density when weight is a major factor (air transport, especially) because you need to spend less energy accelerating mass used by the battery itself.

Same with jet fuel on a plane. They calculate the amount to fuel carefully to be efficient but safe. Too much and the plane is heavier and uses more fuel. Too little and you might run out if put into a holding then diverted. Obviously jet fuel is what it is it wont get more dense but a more efficient engine means less fuel needed means even more efficiency and so on.

The Qantas 16h 45m flight from Dallas to Sydney aims for Brisbane, and then turns to Sydney as the plane approaches Australia. (10th longest commercial route in the world).

This allows the plane to land at Brisbane and refuel if the calculations are done wrong. Couldn't find stats on how many times it's had to land in BNE.

Pre-COVID, it was apparently common to try and off-load passengers to single stopover flights to reduce fuel needs (I was one of those passengers, and the crew confirmed it was a regular occurance).

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#197

Post by midoridensha »

jansan wrote: post #60
ozim wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe dropping battery just before landing could be a thing - on a small parachute or some catch ground in front of landing strip. Silly as it sounds just thinking :)

Sounds about as realistic as shooting nuclear waste into space.

Nuclear waste can be stored on the Moon. Just be careful that it doesn't overheat and turn into a giant rocket, propelling the Moon out of the solar system.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#198

Post by _0w8t »

mrob wrote: post #154
TylerE wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regen braking will do that. I suspect it’d be a much closer competition at, say, 80mph stead state.

Gasoline internal combustion engines run at about 30% efficiency. Diesel does somewhat better at about 40% for car size engines, and about 50% for the really big ones. Electric motors easily exceed 90% efficiency. The EV wins even without regenerative breaking, even accounting for the losses in the batteries.

40% diesel efficiency is for optimal conditions, like steady cruise on a motorway. For practical driving it is less than 25%.

What is also missing here is that it takes 20-30% of energy to refine diesel or gasoline plus there is oil extraction cost. Accounting for that electrical car produces less CO2 when electricity comes from a modern coal plant than a diesel car.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#199

Post by Moldoteck »

ahahahahah wrote: post #100
paganel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have a choice because, on paper, we do have a choice in choosing those countries’ politicians. I know I’ll never give my vote to a politician keen on banning gasoline cars. It’s sadly also true that the technocrats actually taking those decisions are a lot less directly accountable, but nothing that a second “yellow vests” movement won’t be able to fix.

It's wild to imagine that people would widely violently protest against such a change. Like, I find it pretty amusing to look back at the old news broadcasts of people objecting to allowing women in bars or disallowing drunk driving or requiring cars to come with seatbelts, but those all just feel like they're from a completely different time. If people in this day will espouse similarly intelligent positions, it'll…

I guess the problem is electric cars aren't cheap, even in SH market and public transport in some parts of europe and us just sucks. For example I can totally see banning selling ice cars in netherlands, sweeden, norway, israel and other regions with good transportation and richer people, but banning them in us, italy, greece, romania and other similar states (either because they're poor or public transport is bad) is a hard sell

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#200

Post by tecleandor »

msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

31mpg is not very efficient. Lots of current diesel engines in Europe are certified at 50+MPG. There's even a Car and Driver test where, with very efficient (and boring) driving you can get 70+MPG out of a Diesel Cruze...

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15341744/the-prince-of-pa...

Post reply on HN