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CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

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Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#131

Post by asdfman123 »

mg wrote: post #64

Key numbers: They doubled Wh/kg from about 280 to about 500. I assume that thinking about battery capacity form first principles, the theoretical limit is reached when the charged battery consists of 50% matter and 50% antimatter, right? Then during discharge, the reaction between the two would turn the matter/antimatter into energy. How would that stack up against the 500Wh/kg stated here? Update: Did a bit of googl…

A unit containing matter and antimatter isn’t a battery, it’s a completely different thing altogether.

Maybe a slightly closer but still very different example would be a core of weapons grade plutonium. But what you’ve described would be far more powerful than that.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#132

Post by tonyedgecombe »

topper-123 wrote: post #109

Someone should do a followup on all the batteries break-troughs on the front page of HN over the last 5 years and count how many got into production. Still, an announcement from a big company like this is a lot more credible than from research labs or small start-ups, IMO.

It’s interesting that battery stories generate so much opprobrium when battery performance has increased so dramatically over the last couple of decades.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#133

Post by msravi »

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible.

A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy.

By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted article), that's ~147 kWh of energy storage, and the Tesla can do a rated 650km on a single charge[3]. So that's an efficiency of ~225 Wh/km, which is ~27% of the energy required to run a normal car!

It just wouldn't have been possible to run cars on batteries without this efficiency bump.

1. https://chemistry.beloit.edu/edetc/SlideShow/slides/energy/d...

2. https://blog.evbox.com/ev-battery-weight

3. https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#135

Post by TylerE »

msravi wrote: post #133

I just realized how much energy efficiency is being squeezed out of a Tesla. It's incredible. A normal diesel fueled sedan such as the Chevy Cruze diesel runs at about 31mpg, which is 13.2 km/l or 15.3 km/kg. Diesel has a mind-boggling 12700 Wh/kg energy density[1], which translates to an efficiency of ~827 Wh/km for the Chevy. By contrast, the Tesla Model S, has a ~540 kg battery[2]. At 272 Wh/kg (from the posted ar…

Regen braking will do that. I suspect it’d be a much closer competition at, say, 80mph stead state.

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#136

Post by bsaul »

pelorat wrote: post #111
nixass wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not for another ~15 years and then I'll still be able to buy ICE car. EVs in current state are not so good and what's even worse new ICE cars are becoming shittier and shittier because of restrictions imposing on them

In ~15 years if you buy an ICE you also need to afford the gas.

in 15 years there will be so few ice cars on the roads that gas could very well be cheaper than electricity.

Finding a gas station may be problematic ( although i doubt truck will move to electricity that soon)

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#137

Post by someweirdperson »

fwlr wrote: post #73
idontwantthis wrote: post #4

Why does 500wh/kg make electric aircraft possible? 6x less than kerosene. Is that the break even on cost if you can source very cheap electricity? Seems like it would still annihilate the payload/range.

I don’t think Musk has given a writeup of his reasons for thinking 400wh/kg is the magic number, but a lot of research has been done that says similar numbers. This paper https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666691X2... is a good review; it cites researchers saying 800wh/kg for an electric Airbus A320, NASA saying 400Wh/kg for general aviation and 750Wh/kg for regional aviation, and other researchers s…

> Jet fuel gets roughly 28% final efficiency while electric gets roughly 90%

90% likely doesn't include the efficieny of the prop?

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#138

Post by oblio »

baq wrote: post #49
gibolt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

500-600 Wh/kg is the target for replacing average flight durations. Fuel is one of the highest costs for an airline, so eliminating the majority of that will make the demand for any viable options go bananas, even with a much higher upfront cost. Being seen as 'green' is a big bonus for the airline.

If the tech takes off (pun intended) every major airport will need a SMR. Which is maybe good? But politically impractical today .

What's SMR?

Re: CATL has announced a new “condensed” battery with 500 Wh/kg

#139

Post by nickpp »

mpreda wrote: post #105
paganel wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have a choice because, on paper, we do have a choice in choosing those countries’ politicians. I know I’ll never give my vote to a politician keen on banning gasoline cars. It’s sadly also true that the technocrats actually taking those decisions are a lot less directly accountable, but nothing that a second “yellow vests” movement won’t be able to fix.

I on the other hand, I applaud the politicians who had the guts to push the ICE car sales ban against the push-back of the established cars manufacturers. ICE cars are such a nuisance in cities by polluting the air. I look forward to a time when my children will be able to enjoy clean air in the cities.

Banning ICE cars in cities is completely different from banning ICE car sales in whole countries.
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