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TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

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Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#61

Post by DubiousPusher »

biohax2015 wrote: post #46
cloudking wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't keep them off it. If you don't provide them access, they can get access on their friend's devices. The key is education, you have to explain to your kids how these services works, how they are optimized for content engagement to show ads, how they mine your data, and what kinds of things they should look out for and avoid (like misinformation, catfishing, grooming, viral stupidity etc)

As if an 11-year-old will absorb any of that...

Not in those words no.

I have an ongoing conversation with mine about the things he finds online. We talk about how people try to benefit from appearing "rich" online. We talk about how people have problems in their lives and find things to blame and rant about online. We talk about how people you don't know can try to get things from you or make you think a certain way.

He even started using the term "clickbait" before I even taught it to him. These kids are savy. I think the biggest thing we can do for them is to help them understand how to contextualize what they're engaging with because they don't get to grow up in the "before" and "after" worlds that elder millennials did.

And frankly, I see that my kid is just as saturated in propaganda from his public school as he is from online media. So far, in parallel to his education, school seems to be running one giant ad for the US armed forces.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#62

Post by bassrattle »

kelipso wrote: post #6
nahnahg wrote: post #5

I [don't] like how we are told it's disinfo TikTok seeks to exact while a psychological experiment of sorts is shown to be unfolding.. .. where is the disinfo again??

No one knows what chaos theory is anymore? Everything that happens in a complex system must have been planned, right?

If this is the case, then the system needs to be far less complex. The algorithm should absolutely be tuned in the direction of steering children toward content suitable for children and away from that which is not. They know this is not currently the case and doing nothing, so yes, they're purposely keeping it harmful.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#63

Post by vorpalhex »

biohax2015 wrote: post #46
cloudking wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't keep them off it. If you don't provide them access, they can get access on their friend's devices. The key is education, you have to explain to your kids how these services works, how they are optimized for content engagement to show ads, how they mine your data, and what kinds of things they should look out for and avoid (like misinformation, catfishing, grooming, viral stupidity etc)

As if an 11-year-old will absorb any of that...

They will if you explain it to them. I do mean explain and not command.

Sit down with them and go through tiktok or insta. Point out dark patterns, bad content.

Answer their questions truthfully. Sometimes the truthful answer is "I don't know".

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#64

Post by time_to_smile »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

Whenever I see this comment on HN I always am a bit surprised: Do you not have any friends from/in China?

This conspiracy theory always gets a good chuckle out of me and my Chinese friends whenever it comes up. I have a good chunk of my family living in China and I can assure you, Chinese kids watch just as much if not more junk over there than they do in the US.

This is similar to trying to argue that America kids only play wholesome games on the Xbox or Youtube because they have parent controls.

But to my first point: surely working in tech right now you have a few Chinese coworkers. I recommend you grab lunch with them sometime (and let them choose the place to eat!)

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#65

Post by ecshafer »

nineplay wrote: post #23
4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

It's the conspiracy theory I 100% believe in. I don't think the reason to ban TikTok is that it gathers information, I think the reason to ban it is that its ranking algorithm is deliberately destructive. Maybe it's a coincidence that all the dangerous stunts and vandalism "pranks" come from TikTok and not Meta and Twitter, but I don't buy it. I'm leftist liberal and I have no particular paranoia about China, but I'm…

>leftist liberal American political discourse is so messed up because people will gladly sit two contradictory ideas into one.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#66

Post by dontlaugh »

Hitton wrote: post #19
4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

I would think that CCP just forces them to penalize certain things (and maybe promote other things) and in the west they merely don't do that (both for engagement and to avoid getting canceled for censoring certain topics). Compared to other social media it doesn't seem that "debauchery and stupidity" is more prominent there.

This is it. Douyin follows Chinese law, while TikTok doesn't. It has independent editorial control, which ends up very similar to other social media in the same environment.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#67

Post by Jochim »

owisd wrote: post #51
BrianGragg wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally the algorithm works just fine for me. If you interact with what you find is trash / comment / like it will show you more of that content. If you don't want to see it dont' watch it or comment on it. You'll stop seeing it and the items you WANT to see you need to interact with and you will continue to get more of that. If you watch / comment on suicide videos thats exactly what you will get in your feed.

Why are they pushing suicide videos to find out which kids are interested in them in the first place?

They aren't pushing suicide videos specifically. Like most feed driven social media platforms, a video gets some engagement and it appears in the feeds of some users as a result. If it gets flagged or reported they take it down.

TikTok does actively take down content that violates their guidelines. Children are much more likely to come across nudity or porn on Twitter/Instagram.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#68

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

vorpalhex wrote: post #63
biohax2015 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if an 11-year-old will absorb any of that...

They will if you explain it to them. I do mean explain and not command. Sit down with them and go through tiktok or insta. Point out dark patterns, bad content. Answer their questions truthfully. Sometimes the truthful answer is "I don't know".

Then they goto school and their friends say their parents are fucking jackasses and then they're bullied.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#69

Post by fasterik »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #17
4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

> while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Isn't the narrative "that's what the western world consumers more of/wants" versus "China values achievements and education more than debauchery and stupidity"?

I don't trust narratives about what people are seeing on social media without empirical data. The news media are naturally going to report the worst cases, but we don't know anything about the average case. It doesn't get as many clicks if you report on how many cool science videos kids are watching.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#70

Post by DubiousPusher »

Spivak wrote: post #43
vlunkr wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a completely leftist liberal I'm confused. Do you think the CPP is liberal? It's very authoritarian.

There's a difference between recognizing that China has a political structure I don't like and the "everything China bad" red scare bullshit that is going on. The US is plenty authoritarian and China becoming a democracy wouldn't actually change any of the things that people are paranoid about. The state mucking around in private industry to achieve political and national security goals and wage information warefare…

I agree with you. I think America's system overall has more popular accountability in who holds power but "the foreign policy blob" does a very good job of diffusing that popular accountability in foreign matters.
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