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TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

bloomberg.com

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Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#41

Post by cloudking »

lnsru wrote: post #21

The question is how to keep kids off social media. I am very thankful neighbor mom, who bought her son a smart watch and not a cheap android phone. Good example for other kids. It’s clear, that departments with lots of clever people are doing to lock young kids in the phones. And only parents can protect them.

You can't keep them off it. If you don't provide them access, they can get access on their friend's devices.

The key is education, you have to explain to your kids how these services works, how they are optimized for content engagement to show ads, how they mine your data, and what kinds of things they should look out for and avoid (like misinformation, catfishing, grooming, viral stupidity etc)

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#42

Post by nineplay »

ouid wrote: post #36
nineplay wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the conspiracy theory I 100% believe in. I don't think the reason to ban TikTok is that it gathers information, I think the reason to ban it is that its ranking algorithm is deliberately destructive. Maybe it's a coincidence that all the dangerous stunts and vandalism "pranks" come from TikTok and not Meta and Twitter, but I don't buy it. I'm leftist liberal and I have no particular paranoia about China, but I'm…

"I'm a completely leftist liberal, therefore I don't have any particular paranoia about China" is a type error. China is an autocracy, with a track record of doing things that warrant paranoia. I don't really care what you mean by leftist, but you definitely cannot claim to be a liberal and have no "paranoia" about China.

There's a scale I suppose. Paranoia is "China deliberately created and released Covid". My non-paranoid opinion is that China is a large and powerful country which has complete control over its citizens and companies and very much wants the US out of its hair so that it can take over large chunks of Asia with no pushback.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#43

Post by Spivak »

vlunkr wrote: post #27
nineplay wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the conspiracy theory I 100% believe in. I don't think the reason to ban TikTok is that it gathers information, I think the reason to ban it is that its ranking algorithm is deliberately destructive. Maybe it's a coincidence that all the dangerous stunts and vandalism "pranks" come from TikTok and not Meta and Twitter, but I don't buy it. I'm leftist liberal and I have no particular paranoia about China, but I'm…

> I'm a completely leftist liberal I'm confused. Do you think the CPP is liberal? It's very authoritarian.

There's a difference between recognizing that China has a political structure I don't like and the "everything China bad" red scare bullshit that is going on.

The US is plenty authoritarian and China becoming a democracy wouldn't actually change any of the things that people are paranoid about. The state mucking around in private industry to achieve political and national security goals and wage information warefare is as American as hamburgers.

Taken as a single political entity on the national stage China is just USA but in italics. It makes total sense that we would be uneasy in the US but that unease is how everyone not in the US feels about us. The unwavering belief that we're the good guys leads us to project our military might much more freely which doesn't exactly make us popular.

It is crazy that TikTok being a Chinese based company is obviously some ploy to undermine the US while in reality the CCP just forced TikTok to change their algorithm to be educational in China where such a thing wouldn't fly in the US because of the first amendment. China's video game ban for under-18s operates on the same principal.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#44

Post by loeg »

ouid wrote: post #36
nineplay wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the conspiracy theory I 100% believe in. I don't think the reason to ban TikTok is that it gathers information, I think the reason to ban it is that its ranking algorithm is deliberately destructive. Maybe it's a coincidence that all the dangerous stunts and vandalism "pranks" come from TikTok and not Meta and Twitter, but I don't buy it. I'm leftist liberal and I have no particular paranoia about China, but I'm…

"I'm a completely leftist liberal, therefore I don't have any particular paranoia about China" is a type error. China is an autocracy, with a track record of doing things that warrant paranoia. I don't really care what you mean by leftist, but you definitely cannot claim to be a liberal and have no "paranoia" about China.

OP meant left in contrast to right-wing Americans, who typically espouse a more anti-China worldview.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#45

Post by dingusdew »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

[dead]

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#46

Post by biohax2015 »

cloudking wrote: post #41
lnsru wrote: post #21

The question is how to keep kids off social media. I am very thankful neighbor mom, who bought her son a smart watch and not a cheap android phone. Good example for other kids. It’s clear, that departments with lots of clever people are doing to lock young kids in the phones. And only parents can protect them.

You can't keep them off it. If you don't provide them access, they can get access on their friend's devices. The key is education, you have to explain to your kids how these services works, how they are optimized for content engagement to show ads, how they mine your data, and what kinds of things they should look out for and avoid (like misinformation, catfishing, grooming, viral stupidity etc)

As if an 11-year-old will absorb any of that...

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#47

Post by harvey9 »

lnsru wrote: post #21

The question is how to keep kids off social media. I am very thankful neighbor mom, who bought her son a smart watch and not a cheap android phone. Good example for other kids. It’s clear, that departments with lots of clever people are doing to lock young kids in the phones. And only parents can protect them.

Tiktok is available on Android and Apple phones. Not sure what the significance of Android is in your post. You can even get tiktok on Apple Watches with a bit of effort.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#48

Post by throw7 »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #7

I don't know how true it is, but allegedly[1] the algorithm of tiktok in china is tuned to promote achievements and education, while in the western world it promotes debauchery and stupidity. Doesn't take a huge leap to think it could be intentional.. [1] https://www.opindia.com/2022/07/tiktok-china-engineering-oth...

That was my question. Is the algorithm exactly same across the world, including inside China?

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#49

Post by harvey9 »

biohax2015 wrote: post #46
cloudking wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't keep them off it. If you don't provide them access, they can get access on their friend's devices. The key is education, you have to explain to your kids how these services works, how they are optimized for content engagement to show ads, how they mine your data, and what kinds of things they should look out for and avoid (like misinformation, catfishing, grooming, viral stupidity etc)

As if an 11-year-old will absorb any of that...

There was no internet when I was 11 and we still managed to think of stupid and dangerous things to do.

Re: TikTok’s algorithm keeps pushing suicide to vulnerable kids

#50

Post by AlexandrB »

Dig1t wrote: post #8

Seriously though, why haven't we banned TikTok yet? There is no legitimate reason to allow them to keep pushing disinfo here. There are already tons of replacements lined up ready to replace it, it would not hurt anyone in the US at all to ban it.

The US government is working on it by giving themselves sweeping new powers to throw you in jail for using apps that are not approved.

This answers your question: the harm banning it does is the laws that will be pushed to make it happen. Meanwhile, as you said, Instagram stands ready to show the same kind of content to teenagers if TikTok goes away. I suspect the actual harm reduction will be minimal.

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