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The Windows 11 Trash Party

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Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#331

Post by benhurmarcel »

prox wrote: post #29
userbinator wrote: post #5

Windows is definitely adware now. Microsoft saw how much the average user would install, and thought "we can do that too"; of course, by being "official", their own adware is much harder to remove. Windows can show the weather in the bottom left of the task bar, which is nice I've never wanted that feature nor found it appealing. I can just look outside if I want to know the weather where I am, or visit a site otherw…

I ran a debloating app on Win11 and I have never ever seen an app, even after countless installs. I am in Europe, so I wonder if there is also a different install here.

If you select the locale "English (Europe)" when installing Windows, it doesn't add bloatware. I think that's because they specify which bloatware to include depending on the country, and it's not defined for that locale. You also get a skippable error during installation because the installer doesn't have that locale defined for some message.

https://www.ctrl.blog/entry/windows-ooberegion-bloatware.htm...

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#332

Post by shimonabi »

My computer is a couple of years old and a bit slow. When I search for something and I click on it in the Windows 10 Start Menu, the search lag causes something completely else to appear under my cursor and a completely different program opens.

This is absolutely insane! New results should not replace the already found ones.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#333

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

Dalewyn wrote: post #326
MattPalmer1086 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question - what do you like about Windows? I used windows from 3.1, NT, 95, 2000 until XP, at which point I switched to Linux for my main OS. Obviously I used all the later versions of Windows too for work, but each version seemed worse and less usable (7 was ok I guess).

For all its faults, Windows is the only operating system that manages to balance practicality, versatility, customizability, and reliability all in one single operating system. Linux? The fucking thing breaks down if you so much as look at it wrong. No reliability, zilch, nada, /dev/null. I don't trust Linux with anything mission critical, unless I'm paying someone monies to make sure my time isn't wasted (eg: Red Ha…

It's funny but I would make the same argument in reverse.

All my windows boxes in my house have suffered BSODs periodically, get stuck in update cycles, and need complete reinstallation around once every year or two to remain stable. Error messages are cryptic and unhelpful. Logs are lacking.

My linux boxes almost never lock up, errors are resolvable and logs are better. The issues I've had were trivial to fix. Obviously I use hardware on which Linux is known to run well. I have run the same OS and updated it in place for years without any problems.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#334

Post by delta_p_delta_x »

sgt wrote: post #299
delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #47

There are two Microsofts, as I see it. The one with DevDiv and stuff, which has amazing and mostly free development tools like VS Code, VS 2022, Windows Terminal, WSL, Azure, the .NET ecosystem, the MSVC C++ STL, PowerShell, TypeScript, and so on. And then there's the bean-counting, irritating part of Microsoft that has stuck around since the 90s and doesn't seem to go away. This part justifies adding advertisements…

Linux still can't do high/mixed DPI out of the box?

Not until extremely recently[1] for fractional scaling. In my books, this is non-working HiDPI, because on Windows, my 15.6-inch full-HD notebook display is at 1.25× scaling, and my 27-inch UHD monitor is at 1.75× scaling. And since this is so recent, most DEs don't have support for this yet.

I was using mixed-DPI set-ups with no fanfare with Windows 8, 11 years ago. And Windows had initial HiDPI support with Windows 7.

[1]: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland-protocols/-/m...

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#336

Post by anthk »

ricardobayes wrote: post #304
frozenport wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think they can control it? Lack of design in Windows is a direct consequence of MS's inability to steer its process and product strategies. Multiple competing GUI teams, user experience, core devs unable to roll out features because of the number of stake holders, etc.

Windows 11 arguably looks better than Monterey. Please don't tell me closing windows on top left is a good UX decision and also don't tell me that Mac's weird 2.5D icons look good. Apple's software design language is actually terrible. Of course that can't be said about the hardware - that's world class.

Windows 10/11 would look great with an interface close to Zukitre for GTK2/3 from BSD/Linux world. Boring, gray neutral, yes; but it has clear buttons and widgets. Put a dark mode based on that and the problem it's solved.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#337

Post by pjmlp »

wslh wrote: post #302
nstart wrote: post #31

Windows is my daily driver. I actually like the OS but Microsoft would do well to listen to these concerns being raised consistently. They need to ask some deep questions of themselves of what they want Windows to be. This reminds me of the days where Ballmers goal seemed to be to lock everyone into Windows and MS products when the real upside turned out to be “make MS products fully available where people already ar…

I use and try multiple operating systems at work: Windows, macOS, Linux, iOS, tried ChromeOS Flex, etc. Windows 11 doesn't pass basic UX principles and I would not rant about bluetooth devices handling. Also, the performance of the UI is subpar ChromeOS flex in 8 years old notebooks. There are multiple UIs inserted by pressure in the same OS. I know the kernel itself is quite advanced, the problem is at higher layers…

My pet peeve is COM, the idea in abstract is quite good, the tooling besides VB 6 and C++/CX, not so much.

Even with .NET we need a whole book on COM interop to actually understand how they go together, and now CsWinRT has rendered most of it outdated.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#338

Post by wslh »

pjmlp wrote: post #337
wslh wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use and try multiple operating systems at work: Windows, macOS, Linux, iOS, tried ChromeOS Flex, etc. Windows 11 doesn't pass basic UX principles and I would not rant about bluetooth devices handling. Also, the performance of the UI is subpar ChromeOS flex in 8 years old notebooks. There are multiple UIs inserted by pressure in the same OS. I know the kernel itself is quite advanced, the problem is at higher layers…

My pet peeve is COM, the idea in abstract is quite good, the tooling besides VB 6 and C++/CX, not so much. Even with .NET we need a whole book on COM interop to actually understand how they go together, and now CsWinRT has rendered most of it outdated.

Regarding COM, we created pretty advanced tools to hook/intercept it [1]. It is a good abstraction as you said. DCOM is a mess though.

[1] https://blog.nektra.com/main/2015/06/11/remotebridge-is-now-...

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#339

Post by pjmlp »

delta_p_delta_x wrote: post #47

There are two Microsofts, as I see it. The one with DevDiv and stuff, which has amazing and mostly free development tools like VS Code, VS 2022, Windows Terminal, WSL, Azure, the .NET ecosystem, the MSVC C++ STL, PowerShell, TypeScript, and so on. And then there's the bean-counting, irritating part of Microsoft that has stuck around since the 90s and doesn't seem to go away. This part justifies adding advertisements…

C++, Windows and stuff belong to WinDev, not DevDiv.

Additionally, DevDiv is now under Azure, hence all the cool toys and openess.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#340

Post by Nextgrid »

mft_ wrote: post #296

The sad thing is, Windows (even 11) can be great. I bought a new PC 18m ago, and due to the particular software I need to run, I needed a primary Windows installation. The PC came with a Windows 11 license, but I downloaded a stripped out ‘gamer’ focused ISO and installed that instead. It’s brilliant. Thanks to the nature of the ISO, it is totally debloated – far beyond just the obvious removal of things like ads and…

> The only downside of this approach is you have to be careful what’s been stripped out before you make your choice.

Not just about what's been stripped out, but what malware may have been added.

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