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The Windows 11 Trash Party

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Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#301

Post by lkramer »

DrBazza wrote: post #245
hyperman1 wrote: post #239

In windows XP, microsoft learned their users accepted some abuse,e.g locked theme engine, plastic default theme, DRM. There were complaints, but users took it because where else to go? And to be honest, XP was still an upgrade coming from 98 and 2000 was not available for end users. Vista was an universally loathed disaster, but users took it because where else to go? Windows 7 was better, but still an UI downgrade.…

> Windows 11, ad ridden malware by any definition from 10 years ago. Users will take it, because where else to go. 2 of my last 3 jobs have offered MacBooks, something unthinkable even 10 years ago. The majority of my friends kids (70-80%) have Apple devices (phones and laptops). A couple of them, surprisingly to me, even have linux and Chromebook laptops.

At my job you need a special dispensation if you want a Windows machine (normally available options are Linux or Mac). That would certainly have been unthinkable 10 years ago.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#302

Post by wslh »

nstart wrote: post #31

Windows is my daily driver. I actually like the OS but Microsoft would do well to listen to these concerns being raised consistently. They need to ask some deep questions of themselves of what they want Windows to be. This reminds me of the days where Ballmers goal seemed to be to lock everyone into Windows and MS products when the real upside turned out to be “make MS products fully available where people already ar…

I use and try multiple operating systems at work: Windows, macOS, Linux, iOS, tried ChromeOS Flex, etc.

Windows 11 doesn't pass basic UX principles and I would not rant about bluetooth devices handling. Also, the performance of the UI is subpar ChromeOS flex in 8 years old notebooks.

There are multiple UIs inserted by pressure in the same OS. I know the kernel itself is quite advanced, the problem is at higher layers.

BTW, love .NET and the Linux susbsystem.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#304

Post by ricardobayes »

frozenport wrote: post #161
nstart wrote: post #31

Windows is my daily driver. I actually like the OS but Microsoft would do well to listen to these concerns being raised consistently. They need to ask some deep questions of themselves of what they want Windows to be. This reminds me of the days where Ballmers goal seemed to be to lock everyone into Windows and MS products when the real upside turned out to be “make MS products fully available where people already ar…

You think they can control it? Lack of design in Windows is a direct consequence of MS's inability to steer its process and product strategies. Multiple competing GUI teams, user experience, core devs unable to roll out features because of the number of stake holders, etc.

Windows 11 arguably looks better than Monterey. Please don't tell me closing windows on top left is a good UX decision and also don't tell me that Mac's weird 2.5D icons look good. Apple's software design language is actually terrible. Of course that can't be said about the hardware - that's world class.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#305

Post by concinds »

kjellsbells wrote: post #178

Pet theory: Windows for consumers doesn't get dogfooded by internal employees, as they all use the Enterprise version. So they never get to see the full effect of what the Windows group is pushing out to their grandmas.

I use Windows 11 Enterprise and it has all the things both articles complain about.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#306

Post by 2b3a51 »

72deluxe wrote: post #284
esafak wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if Windows or MS-DOS were ever good!

They did help the entire world get work done for 30+ years so they can't have been too bad.

Sigh

I watched a colleague once spend half an hour to get a classroom PC booted, mirrored to the projector, calibrated to the interactive whiteboard and a presentation converted to the whiteboard software.

Endless reboots, popups about out of date software, error messages, popups from the system tray that had to be clicked on, popups from Powerpoint....

So over that 30 years we are talking how many lifetimes wasted?

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#307

Post by ricardobayes »

BrotherBisquick wrote: post #272
nstart wrote: post #31

Windows is my daily driver. I actually like the OS but Microsoft would do well to listen to these concerns being raised consistently. They need to ask some deep questions of themselves of what they want Windows to be. This reminds me of the days where Ballmers goal seemed to be to lock everyone into Windows and MS products when the real upside turned out to be “make MS products fully available where people already ar…

> I actually like the OS Because it allows you to do stuff that MacOS/Linux won't, or do you actually like it as software, in and of itself? If the former, that's understandable. If the latter, then may God have mercy on your soul.

It's not easy to like windows actually, for the most part, things do what they say on the tin, aka "close" really closes a program/window, unlike Mac. There you need to do that weird right click dance to really close something. The whole thing just feels super dumbed down.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#308

Post by pacifika »

72deluxe wrote: post #283
COMMENT___ wrote: post #228

> I use Windows to play games, but it truly feels like a trash party most of the time. Use Linux + Proton. It’s fascinating how Linux became a decent replacement for Windows for video games. (Thanks, Valve!)

Is there a standalone installer for this so you can run items not on Steam? I have many old Windows games you see, with DVDs.

You can add non steam games to steam and use proton that way

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#309

Post by barrkel »

rafark wrote: post #99
WWLink wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably my computer/browser, but that feels hella slow. For those getting ideas, Windows 2000 was lightning fast to use. Even on something humble at the time. Those windows and menus popped up instantly.

Not really. When I was a kid in the mid 2000s I remember the family computer was hella slow. The menus did not pop up instantly. You probably used it on a top of the line machine. For a lot of us, windows 2000 and xp was sluggish and slow. Our pc used to have 512mb of ram iirc.

NT3.5 was noticeably different to Win3.11 because dragging windows dragged the contents; on Win3.11, you got an XOR stipple outline indicating where the window was going to end up.

NT4 ran very well on 64MB. I used it as a daily driver shortly before switching to Win2k. I never ran Windows ME, I went from 95->98->NT4->Win2k->XP. NT4 correlated with me going all in on Win32 API programming.

The biggest slowness for start menu popup back then was disk. Random access loading icons for the entries, I suspect. Things would be faster the second time around. Disk was the general direct reason for slowness in usual use. Insufficient memory -> paging -> more slow disk accesses.

Context menus would be slow (and still are) if you had badly written shell extensions installed. Getting rid of those (sometimes requiring registry edits if you wanted to keep the related app) made a big difference.

Those were the days when you'd generally want to upgrade your PC every year, or at least every couple of years, if you wanted to be able to continue running the latest software.

Re: The Windows 11 Trash Party

#310

Post by surgical_fire »

eviks wrote: post #119
pxc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Against fixing this behavior, and others: The year of the Linux desktop for anyone who regularly browses this site came a long, long time ago. If you're running Windows today and still telling yourself that you'll switch once it finally gets bad enough , the sad truth is that you'll put up with anything, as long as Microsoft introduces new bad behavior slowly enough to let you acclimate to their successive, increasin…

But this is a benign papercut that you fix once per a few years here and there, but Linux would have many more and deeper cuts (and your sad truth is not true, there is a limit)

Ehh, I recently switched to Linux for good.

Couldn't be happier about the move. No paper cuts at all. Honestly, Linux has never been better.

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