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'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

joannejacobs.com

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Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#391

Post by Der_Einzige »

40yearoldman wrote: post #253
praxulus wrote: post #32

I live in Seattle, not San Francisco, but we have some similar issues with our schools. I'd really prefer to send my son to our local public schools, but if they aren't challenging him appropriately then my wife and I obviously aren't going to just give up on his education. We'll either pay for extracurricular enrichment like the person in this article, move to a wealthy suburb, or send him to a private school instea…

> That's a much worse outcome from an equity lens Bingo, that is the issue, everybody is worried about equity. You can't have it, we need meritocracy, equity is just cruel and unusual punishment to future. It is a recipe for driving society to the lowest common denominator. You should demand proper education or your money back. (Side note, this is what we will get 10x with free college, and the guaranteed loans have…

That term "meritocracy" was coined originally in a book that was highly critical of meritocratic societies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#392

Post by shrimp_emoji »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #391
40yearoldman wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a much worse outcome from an equity lens Bingo, that is the issue, everybody is worried about equity. You can't have it, we need meritocracy, equity is just cruel and unusual punishment to future. It is a recipe for driving society to the lowest common denominator. You should demand proper education or your money back. (Side note, this is what we will get 10x with free college, and the guaranteed loans have…

That term "meritocracy" was coined originally in a book that was highly critical of meritocratic societies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_of_the_Meritocracy

And apparently everyone thought the book was satirical and embraced the word as a positive concept. :p

(But then, of course, you realize that you've merely shifted the game of haves and have-nots to other kinds of "have" and feel the hubristic urge to socially engineer your way to equal outcomes.)

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#393

Post by Der_Einzige »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #244
nordsieck wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I live in Seattle Luckily, everyone in the area gets access to Running Start[1]. Doesn't address the earlier years of schooling, though. If your children are in HS, I'd really recommend sitting downing with a HS councilor to make sure that your kids take the classes that are required by the district for HS, but aren't required for a college degree (I'm thinking of speech here, but there may be others) in the first…

I found the actual impact of AP credits disappointing. I ended up with no gen ed classes and started off in sophomore classes for math and physics. AP doesn’t count towards college GPA, and it turns out that others ended up with GPA padding that I missed out on. Still turned out fine overall, the GPA padding thing just didn’t occur to me in high school and no one pointed it out.

Good, gen eds were basically a waste, and getting them done ahead of time meaningfully reduces the university cost burden to students.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#394

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

staunton wrote: post #287
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of children are capable of learning "the math" under ideal conditions and circumstances? What percentage of children are capable of learning "the math" in practical conditions and circumstances? What is the distribution of ideal ages for children to learn "the math" in practical conditions and circumstances? What happens when those ages (for most) don't line up with the various social factors that wil…

You seem to be saying that schools are bad. Do you really think modern society can function without schools? Or that countries that don't have schools shouldn't build any?

You ask two questions that are at odds with each other.

If schools were bad, but modern society can't function without them, which would you pick? If you say it can't function without them, then are they good regardless because you want it to continue to function?

Like, no matter how bad they are? Or do you draw some line or another? "It's ok if they make kids dumb and compulsive consumers, but they can't go torturing them!"

Asking questions like this seems to be more about dogma and status quo than anything else.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#395

Post by Der_Einzige »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #37
g9yuayon wrote: post #24

> "Families with resources turn to fee-required online algebra 1 courses in eighth grade, outside the public school system, or enroll their kids in private schools," Isn't this obvious result? The Russian School of Mathematics could manage to teach 10-year old kids basic algebra. And there's AOPS, there's Think Academy, and slew of local tutoring schools who can teach kids relatively advanced maths. Let alone many pr…

> in the name of equity That's the problem. We're dealing with the critical theory definition of equity, which they define as the intentional redistribution of opportunity and resources along identity group lines to correct for present and historical injustices, as well as opportunities those groups have already had. Critical theory and social justice adopts a distorted view of reality. Leave it to a school in San Fr…

People will willingly claim that critical theory is not connected to Marxism. We call these people wrong.

Marx is literally the godfather of critical theory, the Frankfurt school, post strcturalism and the rest of the fashionable nonsense cannon that parts of the left seem obsessed with.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#396

Post by TimTheTinker »

firstlink wrote: post #385
vnchr wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inequality is increased because those without resources aren’t receiving any new benefits and those with resources use those resources to compensate for the failure of the system to provide an education optimal path. It’s worse outcomes for both, except some people can shield themselves from the fallout. What new kind of self-inflicted damage will be required to realize the detrimental failure of this world view?

Well you see we just haven't tried real socialism yet. The wealthy should not be allowed to give any kind of private education including tutors to their kids. And they shouldn't be allowed to interact with their kids at all because that too causes inequity. State boarding schools all around. Then we will achieve a classless society.

Exactly, that's where this line of reasoning goes.

In reality, the political leaders in charge of this societal reordering will themselves become the next upper class, and you can bet with certainty they'll give their own kids the best education and opportunities they can (which will be better than what they offer the masses).

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#397

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

LeanderK wrote: post #360
NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What else could possible result? There are people who don't understand sociology and are only vaguely aware of pathological cultural factors (or possibly, though they are aware of them, wish to deny their existence) and demand that these problems be solved with bureaucracy. Bureaucracy is only able to crudely affect these, and only in the most totalitarian of regimes. Mao or Stalin might have been able to rid their c…

nearly every other developed country managed to fund their schools system adequately, to provide a uniform system of education without heavy reliance on private schools. While you can't really guarantee equal opportunities for every kid due extracurricular support, at least the possible schools and classes are open to everyone independent of income. So one should strive to eliminate private schools as much as possibl…

I don't think any intelligent person would make the accusation that we don't spend enough on education. On average, the United States spends an absurd amount per student. Even in the places where they spend less than this average per student, they're still spending more than throughout all of Europe.

The question really becomes not if we're spending enough, but what it is that we happen to be buying. How much of any given $1 you spend in taxes purchases textbooks, or pays teacher paychecks? Hell, how much on air conditioning in the summer so kids can concentrate on something other than the sweat dribbling down their foreheads?

How much is spent on the office building downtown that has nothing to do with teaching directly, but with people who manage the teachers? And with people who manage those managers?

> So one should strive to eliminate private schools as much as possible. I entrenches inequality.

If the only equality you can figure out how to manage is hammering down all the nails that stick out, what good is equality?

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#398

Post by Der_Einzige »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #105
bendbro wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some students need to be left behind

Which ones are those again?

Kids who are disruptive/discipline problems. Teachers should not be removing slow students who do not cause issues in the classroom. Teachers should remove disruptive students. Disruptive students lose their learning pass, and all would benefit from such a situation.

Teachers becoming disciplinarians is where they become authoritarian, exploitive arbiters of ones future earning potential.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#399

Post by amluto »

mlrtime wrote: post #361
nemothekid wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that you can achieve cosmic justice should be abolished. There's no such thing. I think abandoning cosmic justice is kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The problem is educational outcomes are tied to race and socioeconomic status and that problem cannot be solved by the school district (unless you could institute a kind of boarding school). That said, these administrators have arrived at a s…

"outcomes are tied to race and socioeconomic status" No, outcomes are tied to the culture of the parents. Parents involvement/care is the greatest predictor of child success. This doesn't mean that the parents are educated or wealthy, it's that they have a mindset that the best thing they can do for the success of THEIR child (not society) is prioritize education.

Measuring “culture” in a manner independent of socioeconomic status seems challenging, but:

> it's that they have a mindset that the best thing they can do for the success of THEIR child (not society) is prioritize education.

Parents with that mindset but who don’t have a safe home or don’t have reliable food or who both work two jobs may have a very difficult time prioritizing education.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#400

Post by Cymrukicks »

pandaman wrote: post #375
Cymrukicks wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To answer your question first you make sure that child has the same education resources available that the professors child does throughout all aspects of their life. You also make the professors available to children from those inner city areas widening the networking effects that the children of the professor gets. they won't be as good but you open them up. Improving objective outcomes is some Krypton level shit,…

The child of the professors has the parents who are supposedly smart and teach him or her all the time at home, how exactly do you make this available to children from those inner city areas?

It's called a teacher you find them in schools. If you pay them properly and give them adequate resources they can achieve these goals. You also add in libraries and other places where kids can learn independently.
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