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'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

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Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#251

Post by gnicholas »

uptownfunk wrote: post #184

Growing up in San Diego the accelerated cohort did algebra in grade 7. Some of us who were passionate took math over the summer and got even further ahead. It’s a little surprising to see in this day and age when things should move faster that algebra is delayed to grade 9.

Same for me, growing up in Sacramento (and going to a public magnet school). I was shocked to learn that what is described on Silicon Valley school tours as "super-duper advanced math" is literally what we had 35 years ago in Sactown.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#252

Post by ketralnis »

dragonwriter wrote: post #150
ketralnis wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not as much benefit as you'd think. The state funding that student would have been bringing goes with the student to the private school so the student/teacher ratio stays about the same

> The state funding that student would have been bringing goes with the student to the private school No, it doesn’t. There was a proposed 2022 ballot initiative that would have done that with about 2/3 of the state funding, but it got less than 1/3 of the signatures required to be placed on the ballot.

Fair enough, I'm way out of date there. I went to a charter school for part of my high school and it was free to me. Their funding came from the funding the state would have have been sending to a public school had I gone there instead.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#253

Post by 40yearoldman »

praxulus wrote: post #32

I live in Seattle, not San Francisco, but we have some similar issues with our schools. I'd really prefer to send my son to our local public schools, but if they aren't challenging him appropriately then my wife and I obviously aren't going to just give up on his education. We'll either pay for extracurricular enrichment like the person in this article, move to a wealthy suburb, or send him to a private school instea…

> That's a much worse outcome from an equity lens

Bingo, that is the issue, everybody is worried about equity.

You can't have it, we need meritocracy, equity is just cruel and unusual punishment to future. It is a recipe for driving society to the lowest common denominator.

You should demand proper education or your money back.

(Side note, this is what we will get 10x with free college, and the guaranteed loans have already driven it this way a bit more)

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#254

Post by testfoobar »

georgeecollins wrote: post #243
testfoobar wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealthy suburbs are cutting advanced classes too. Palo Alto Unified School District is dropping dual-enrolled Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra (classes taken after AP Calculus BC). https://www.paloaltoonline.com/square/2023/03/29/cancellatio...

My kid is on this track exactly and I think it is a joke that some kids take multivariable calculus or linear algebra in high school. Enrichment and AP has become an arms race for the upper middle class to get their kids into good schools. Realistically, if you are STEM major you probably are going to have to retake these classes anyway. And if you aren't you probably won't need them. I know some kids are really exce…

Couple of points. 1) Colleges expect students to take the most advanced curriculum available. With grade inflation across the board, AP and Honors classes are not the distinguishing factor they used to be. 2) With the entire world's resources at their fingertips an ever larger cohort of kids is advancing to higher level math classes at earlier stages.

Frankly, Multivariable and Linear Alg. is on the low end of the ability of advanced high school kids these days. The ease of deploying tensor flow has gotten a lot of kids motivated to learn linear algebra.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#255

Post by supportlocal4h »

pseudostem wrote: post #222
icelancer wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rich families are not the problem here. The public schools with the tyranny of low expectations are the issue.

I will have to disagree with both you and GP to a certain degree. A developed country is not where even the poor have cars, it's where even the rich use public transport - a quote attributed to many including LKY. Extrapolating this to the current argument (disclaimer: not read the article), if the same system is thrust onto the rich and poor alike, it should get better over a period of time, no? This is a complicate…

My child attends a small, arguably underfunded, rural public school. It does not have enough faculty to teach Chemistry or Physics every year. Spanish is the only foreign language taught.

The student body generally excels. A graduating class of 120 students might have a dozen who score 30+ on the ACT. And, of course, there is perhaps an equal number who fail to graduate.

They all go to the same school, but I wouldn't say "the same system is thrust onto the rich and poor alike." The most important system in the education of a child is not within the walls of a school. It is within the walls of their home.

It is simply true that a certain level of affluence is necessary to provide a stable learning environment * in the home *. Affluence does not guarantee that stability, but it increases the odds so dramatically that its affect should not be ignored.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#256

Post by MrJohz »

chii wrote: post #154
User23 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do the resources come from? Also, among those who aren’t willfully ignorant, it’s well known that increasing resources increases inequality. The classic example is height: when resources are low everyone is short. But when resources are plentiful then those with the genes for height tower above those without.

> But when resources are plentiful then those with the genes for height tower above those without. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Those who were short didn't fare worse in absolute terms. They only look worse off by comparison.

In fairness, the issues surrounding height inequality tend to be more about relative height than absolute height. So sure, shorter people can still reach the same physical heights, absolutely speaking, but they are now being judged against a broader spectrum of heights relatively speaking. Which means that they're less likely to succeed at job interviews or in relationships, and therefore end up absolutely worse off than before.

Essentially, if something is a zero-sum game (e.g. there are only so many jobs around, if you get a job someone else won't), then even if someone isn't doing worse absolutely, they can still do worse overall relatively speaking.

Which isn't to say that we should be giving short people stilts and cutting the legs off tall people, but it's worth recognising that these topics are complex, and even if we're only talking about absolute benefits, people can still lose out relatively speaking.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#257

Post by [deleted] »

lokar wrote: post #215
prpl wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time believing above average students (with parents with parents without engineering/science degrees) could take linear algebra and multi variable calculus at university rigor along any other courses they are required to take. Sure, maybe at Paly and Gunn there’s enough to fill a 20 person class, but those are still pretty steep courses which require math majors and not math education majors. If the stu…

At some point the answer should be to support students just taking a class or two at a local university. This is totally reasonable.

[deleted]

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#258

Post by CamperBob2 »

lostmsu wrote: post #180
g9yuayon wrote: post #24

> "Families with resources turn to fee-required online algebra 1 courses in eighth grade, outside the public school system, or enroll their kids in private schools," Isn't this obvious result? The Russian School of Mathematics could manage to teach 10-year old kids basic algebra. And there's AOPS, there's Think Academy, and slew of local tutoring schools who can teach kids relatively advanced maths. Let alone many pr…

For someone unfamiliar, what is Russian School of Math? A private school? An extra curricular activity?

They give you a pencil, and the kid in line in front of you gets a calculator. When he flunks out, you get his calculator.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#259

Post by testfoobar »

com2kid wrote: post #249
prpl wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a hard time believing above average students (with parents with parents without engineering/science degrees) could take linear algebra and multi variable calculus at university rigor along any other courses they are required to take. Sure, maybe at Paly and Gunn there’s enough to fill a 20 person class, but those are still pretty steep courses which require math majors and not math education majors. If the stu…

> I have a hard time believing above average students (with parents with parents without engineering/science degrees) could take linear algebra Linear algebra is not hard. I had a math teacher who taught the basics of linear algebra in my middle school math class. While she was an exceptional teacher (incredibly good, we still talk over 25 years later!), I can attest that the concepts presented no great difficulty to…

For many advanced kids, math is not hard. It is a tool that must be mastered to solve the next set of problems. Profound understanding comes along the way.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#260

Post by nobody9999 »

bendbro wrote: post #85
sp332 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that if it’s important to rich parents, they will grudgingly fund education for everyone. But as long as they have these outlets where they can just educate their own kids and leave everyone else behind, they will.

Some students need to be left behind

>Some students need to be left behind

Definitely. Let's start stack ranking[0] in kindergarten and expel (and make that stick nationwide!) the bottom 10% every year.[1]

By the time students get to high school, we'll have best schools in the world!

Those who have been expelled had already reached their intellectual peak, especially those in primary school. amirite? /s

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitality_curve

[1] Please use this is a "clear indicator of intent to parody" -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

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