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'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

joannejacobs.com

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Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#241

Post by supportlocal4h »

voidfunc wrote: post #221
echelon wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not going to improve the lives of impoverished children by lowering the bar. It's absurd. The best solution I can think of is to pay children to succeed in academics or extracurriculars (STEM, clubs, sports, arts, etc.) A student wouldn't have to be gifted in math, just apply themselves to some interest that drives them. Give them a score-based percentage of $200/mo for hitting certain criteria each month. Pla…

This sounds nice but would quickly be abused by households with shitty parents (gamblers, drug addicts, alcoholics etc) that would take the kids money. Better to somehow subsidize higher education through some kind of credit system they can earn and then use to pay for college later on... of course the problem then is it would have to scale with the rising cost of tuition.

Why pay for college later on when you could pay for high school now? School districts charge thousands of dollars in fees per student directly to parents. Public school is not free even if it is greatly subsidized. Our state claims it costs something like $25k/year to educate one student. If taxes, etc cover 95% of that, the parents are on the hook for $1250 per child.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#242

Post by bradlys »

nordsieck wrote: post #67
praxulus wrote: post #32

I live in Seattle, not San Francisco, but we have some similar issues with our schools. I'd really prefer to send my son to our local public schools, but if they aren't challenging him appropriately then my wife and I obviously aren't going to just give up on his education. We'll either pay for extracurricular enrichment like the person in this article, move to a wealthy suburb, or send him to a private school instea…

> I live in Seattle Luckily, everyone in the area gets access to Running Start[1]. Doesn't address the earlier years of schooling, though. If your children are in HS, I'd really recommend sitting downing with a HS councilor to make sure that your kids take the classes that are required by the district for HS, but aren't required for a college degree (I'm thinking of speech here, but there may be others) in the first…

They don’t generally transfer for Ivys. Running start is something you do if you have no intention of going to prestigious private universities as it’s completely pointless (credits don’t usually transfer) and they don’t have a great process for evaluating such students into their programs. You’d only do it if you plan to go to a school in your state since transferring credits out of state isn’t always easy going.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#243

Post by georgeecollins »

testfoobar wrote: post #134
praxulus wrote: post #32

I live in Seattle, not San Francisco, but we have some similar issues with our schools. I'd really prefer to send my son to our local public schools, but if they aren't challenging him appropriately then my wife and I obviously aren't going to just give up on his education. We'll either pay for extracurricular enrichment like the person in this article, move to a wealthy suburb, or send him to a private school instea…

Wealthy suburbs are cutting advanced classes too. Palo Alto Unified School District is dropping dual-enrolled Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra (classes taken after AP Calculus BC). https://www.paloaltoonline.com/square/2023/03/29/cancellatio...

My kid is on this track exactly and I think it is a joke that some kids take multivariable calculus or linear algebra in high school. Enrichment and AP has become an arms race for the upper middle class to get their kids into good schools. Realistically, if you are STEM major you probably are going to have to retake these classes anyway. And if you aren't you probably won't need them.

I know some kids are really exceptional and maybe ought to take this much math that young. But I think a lot do it now to get into a college.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#244

Post by pfannkuchen »

nordsieck wrote: post #67
praxulus wrote: post #32

I live in Seattle, not San Francisco, but we have some similar issues with our schools. I'd really prefer to send my son to our local public schools, but if they aren't challenging him appropriately then my wife and I obviously aren't going to just give up on his education. We'll either pay for extracurricular enrichment like the person in this article, move to a wealthy suburb, or send him to a private school instea…

> I live in Seattle Luckily, everyone in the area gets access to Running Start[1]. Doesn't address the earlier years of schooling, though. If your children are in HS, I'd really recommend sitting downing with a HS councilor to make sure that your kids take the classes that are required by the district for HS, but aren't required for a college degree (I'm thinking of speech here, but there may be others) in the first…

I found the actual impact of AP credits disappointing. I ended up with no gen ed classes and started off in sophomore classes for math and physics. AP doesn’t count towards college GPA, and it turns out that others ended up with GPA padding that I missed out on. Still turned out fine overall, the GPA padding thing just didn’t occur to me in high school and no one pointed it out.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#245

Post by Glawen »

__lbracket__ wrote: post #202

Why must "college level" be uniform in all subjects for all students? Vast majority of math (algebra, calculus etc) are of little use in most careers (even quantitative ones). So why must the society strive for equal outcome in a subject that is of questionable use? Why not prepare kids instead for something thats actually useful for a job?

Like a coding bootcamp?

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#246

Post by brnaftr361 »

zdragnar wrote: post #230
brnaftr361 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you define what you mean by abstract thinking skills? Everything else you've listed can be acquired as a dishwasher or a line cook. Anyways, the classes always seemed to me to tend more towards shut up and calculate than they did building a robust understanding and perhaps most important of it all: a mathematical intuition. I always found it profoundly stupid that there were never any essay questions in math, I e…

I grew up in the midwest US, and what we called "word problems" were a pretty common component to learning (classes), practicing (homework) and verification (testing). The one that stuck with me is the explanation of how speedometers and police radars actually calculate speed using derivatives in pre/entry calculus. We also learned to write very basic proofs. I would consider both of these to be the essay equivalent…

When did you receive your education? I, too, grew up in the Midwest but my experience has always been "shut up and calculate" rife with mostly process-learning and unrelatable problem sets. Certainly important, yes, but also boring. Nothing creative, nothing playful, just very mechanical, very dull. Word problems were infrequent, and anything with real world application was jammed into the margins and given only the most cursory glance. Not to mention doing the online homework was awful.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#247

Post by jeffbee »

yolovoe wrote: post #113
jeffbee wrote: post #36

It's interesting how path-dependency makes these things seem like controversial reforms, while nearby districts have always done it this way. In Berkeley, for example, there isn't any course called "Algebra I" or II. Through 8th grade there is just math, with no differentiation. Then for 9th grade you can test into an advanced track, and people take either Math 1/2/3 or Advanced Math 1/2/3. In senior year any of thes…

Is there a path to take AP Calculus BC before senior year? If not, this still seems limiting.

The world's foremost university is 500 meters from Berkeley High. I assure you that no person who ever wanted to study math was denied the opportunity. Anyone with 2 years of high school can enroll in multivariate calculus or linear algebra at UC Berkeley. In fact, anyone on Earth can study them virtually, for credit!

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#249

Post by com2kid »

prpl wrote: post #207
testfoobar wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wealthy suburbs are cutting advanced classes too. Palo Alto Unified School District is dropping dual-enrolled Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra (classes taken after AP Calculus BC). https://www.paloaltoonline.com/square/2023/03/29/cancellatio...

I have a hard time believing above average students (with parents with parents without engineering/science degrees) could take linear algebra and multi variable calculus at university rigor along any other courses they are required to take. Sure, maybe at Paly and Gunn there’s enough to fill a 20 person class, but those are still pretty steep courses which require math majors and not math education majors. If the stu…

> I have a hard time believing above average students (with parents with parents without engineering/science degrees) could take linear algebra

Linear algebra is not hard. I had a math teacher who taught the basics of linear algebra in my middle school math class. While she was an exceptional teacher (incredibly good, we still talk over 25 years later!), I can attest that the concepts presented no great difficulty to any of the students (with the caveat that all of us were in an advanced learning program)

Now calculus, I feel that at least some high school students I've talked to really didn't "get it", even for single variable. Then again I get the feeling that most people who take calculus don't get it, which I find sad because IMHO calculus is absolutely phenomenal. For me, it was when math started really connecting to the real world and making an impact on how I saw things in my day to day.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#250

Post by com2kid »

echelon wrote: post #213
adamredwoods wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have two friends whose kids are in two different Seattle middle schools, and the anecdotes we hear are not going well. One middle school was considering getting rid of advanced courses entirely. We're in East Renton, which usually follows Seattle, but they have kept honor courses. In fact, honor courses are encouraged to take, open to everyone, and from what I understand, no one is rejected (possibly only for the…

You're not going to improve the lives of impoverished children by lowering the bar. It's absurd. The best solution I can think of is to pay children to succeed in academics or extracurriculars (STEM, clubs, sports, arts, etc.) A student wouldn't have to be gifted in math, just apply themselves to some interest that drives them. Give them a score-based percentage of $200/mo for hitting certain criteria each month. Pla…

> You're not going to improve the lives of impoverished children by lowering the bar. It's absurd.

As a poor kid in Seattle, I am now no longer poor because of a high bar.

In my high school (West Seattle High School!) we edited DNA. We spliced DNA, inserted a gene, closed it up, and made bacteria change color. It was awesome.

> The best solution I can think of is to pay children to succeed in academics or extracurriculars

Unfortunately, extrinsic motivations mess people up and don't end well long term.

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