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'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

joannejacobs.com

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Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#201

Post by gnicholas »

> Families face a "nightmare of workarounds" to get their high-achieving children on track for advanced math, write Rex Ridgeway and David Margulies in a San Francisco Examiner commentary.

Families in Palo Alto recently won a lawsuit against PAUSD, [1] which was denying students credit for courses taken at other institutions (mainly community colleges, IIRC). In Menlo Park, we deal with similar issues; I recently wondered to myself how much I could have taught my kids in all the hours that I have spent talking to the school/district about allowing students to receive advanced learning. Other parents with less time and more money opt for private schools. Those with less time and no more money simply resign themselves to the situation. It is shocking how hostile schools are to what used to be common sense: letting (or, gasp, even encouraging) all students to learn.

1: https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2023/03/03/judge-rules-h...

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#202

Post by __lbracket__ »

Why must "college level" be uniform in all subjects for all students? Vast majority of math (algebra, calculus etc) are of little use in most careers (even quantitative ones). So why must the society strive for equal outcome in a subject that is of questionable use? Why not prepare kids instead for something thats actually useful for a job?

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#203

Post by WalterBright »

mdorazio wrote: post #127
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

Argh this grinds my gears. It’s the education SYSTEM that is wrong. We are working with a 150 year old way of educating kids that does not apply to our culture today. Kids aren’t going to work on the farm or in a factory. They need the math!!! For courses like algebra, etc. kids need support at home from parents. When that support isn’t available (for whatever reason), don’t water down the content for goodness sake.…

> They need the math!!! Serious question: for what? Basic algebra, yes. And basic geometry is handy in many jobs as well. But beyond that?

Failing to understand compound interest leads to a lifetime of poor financial management.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#204

Post by froh »

mdorazio wrote: post #127
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

Argh this grinds my gears. It’s the education SYSTEM that is wrong. We are working with a 150 year old way of educating kids that does not apply to our culture today. Kids aren’t going to work on the farm or in a factory. They need the math!!! For courses like algebra, etc. kids need support at home from parents. When that support isn’t available (for whatever reason), don’t water down the content for goodness sake.…

> They need the math!!! Serious question: for what? Basic algebra, yes. And basic geometry is handy in many jobs as well. But beyond that?

where do we draw the line what's "basic"?

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#205

Post by adamredwoods »

praxulus wrote: post #32

I live in Seattle, not San Francisco, but we have some similar issues with our schools. I'd really prefer to send my son to our local public schools, but if they aren't challenging him appropriately then my wife and I obviously aren't going to just give up on his education. We'll either pay for extracurricular enrichment like the person in this article, move to a wealthy suburb, or send him to a private school instea…

We have two friends whose kids are in two different Seattle middle schools, and the anecdotes we hear are not going well. One middle school was considering getting rid of advanced courses entirely.

We're in East Renton, which usually follows Seattle, but they have kept honor courses. In fact, honor courses are encouraged to take, open to everyone, and from what I understand, no one is rejected (possibly only for the first year). I like this approach better than 'algebra for no one'.

Yes, the better school districts are east of Seattle, and this is why all those homes are retaining their skyrocketing value.

>> Asking higher income parents to risk their children's future is a lot.

We're not wealthy at all, so if the Renton school system follows Seattle, we're not going to waste our child's future on crap education.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#207

Post by prpl »

testfoobar wrote: post #134
praxulus wrote: post #32

I live in Seattle, not San Francisco, but we have some similar issues with our schools. I'd really prefer to send my son to our local public schools, but if they aren't challenging him appropriately then my wife and I obviously aren't going to just give up on his education. We'll either pay for extracurricular enrichment like the person in this article, move to a wealthy suburb, or send him to a private school instea…

Wealthy suburbs are cutting advanced classes too. Palo Alto Unified School District is dropping dual-enrolled Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra (classes taken after AP Calculus BC). https://www.paloaltoonline.com/square/2023/03/29/cancellatio...

I have a hard time believing above average students (with parents with parents without engineering/science degrees) could take linear algebra and multi variable calculus at university rigor along any other courses they are required to take. Sure, maybe at Paly and Gunn there’s enough to fill a 20 person class, but those are still pretty steep courses which require math majors and not math education majors.

If the students are prepared enough for those classes, what’s the point in keeping them in High School anyway?

I had a strange experience where I had a bunch of AP courses lined up my senior year and then moved to a place which did not have nearly any of them. In hindsight, I should have really pressed for direct enrollment to college instead of faffing around my senior year in “communication skills”, AP english, and “Economics” - all three required by the school district but mostly useless.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#208

Post by danenania »

hedora wrote: post #112
jeffbee wrote: post #36

It's interesting how path-dependency makes these things seem like controversial reforms, while nearby districts have always done it this way. In Berkeley, for example, there isn't any course called "Algebra I" or II. Through 8th grade there is just math, with no differentiation. Then for 9th grade you can test into an advanced track, and people take either Math 1/2/3 or Advanced Math 1/2/3. In senior year any of thes…

Berkeley public schools have a terrible reputation: https://www.greatschools.org/california/berkeley/25-Berkeley... Slightly above average in California is a failing grade by US standards. (California schools are 43rd in the nation.)

If you look at the breakdown of that 7/10 rating, test scores are 9 and “college readiness” an 8, while “equity”, whatever that means, is 4, which is what pulls the overall rating to a 7. This rating is not really a measure of the quality of the school.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#210

Post by jkingsbery »

michael_vo wrote: post #92

Why don't policies go through double blind trials or more A/B tests? And attach automatic rollbacks to policies based on metrics. I'm all for trying new solutions but they should be iterated on quickly.

The facetious answer, of course, is that because the people designing these policies learned math in the California public school system.

Less facetiously: A/B tests are great at lots of things. But these results really shouldn't surprise anyone. The idea that you will improve things for one group of students by making things worse for another group is really not only silly, it cost real kids a year of potential progress. An A/B test would cost some percentage of kids that year, which is better than hurting the whole group, but A/B testing on something that obviously would hurt their future does not seem fair to those hurt by the proposed changes.

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