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'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

joannejacobs.com

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Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#361

Post by mlrtime »

nemothekid wrote: post #197
chii wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has a “guiding principle” and the road to hell is paved with good intentions. The idea that you can achieve cosmic justice should be abolished. There's no such thing.

> The idea that you can achieve cosmic justice should be abolished. There's no such thing. I think abandoning cosmic justice is kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The problem is educational outcomes are tied to race and socioeconomic status and that problem cannot be solved by the school district (unless you could institute a kind of boarding school). That said, these administrators have arrived at a s…

"outcomes are tied to race and socioeconomic status"

No, outcomes are tied to the culture of the parents. Parents involvement/care is the greatest predictor of child success. This doesn't mean that the parents are educated or wealthy, it's that they have a mindset that the best thing they can do for the success of THEIR child (not society) is prioritize education.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#362

Post by LeanderK »

suchire wrote: post #52
jerojero wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mostly agree with you, except on one aspect. We cannot rely on support from parents, the system we design needs to be thought of with parents out of the equation because in the case of the most vulnerable of kids they will not have parents that can help them. Special tutoring needs to be a part of the system, outsourcing the work will make things cheaper but it will complicate things for those struggling. Kids in n…

Honestly, it doesn’t really work without the parents. The issue is that the biggest problems with schooling discrepancies are poverty. Kids can’t eat, need to take care of siblings or their own kids or go work two jobs, have no homes, don’t get medical care, have no internet, etc. There is no way to really fix those problems by changing the school system. You can have bandaids, like providing free food at school, but…

are there no all-day schools in the US? My girlfriend went to one because of her mother being on her own and having to work and it was pretty involved compared to my "normal" school. They handled school, sports and homework. Your kid should come home with only very, very few things to do. It's a trend in germany to have it as an option at more and more schools but they have to build the infrastructure first (may schools in german didn't have a canteen) so it's taking a bit. The schools where I grew up didn't have one but now both "advanced" schools have all day school options.

I think every school should have the possibility to put your kid in an all-day school, I can't imagine the strain on single parents or parents where both have to work a lot otherwise.

Of course it's not possible to eliminate parents as an important factor of the success of your kid, but you can help.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#363

Post by mlrtime »

g9yuayon wrote: post #29
boringuser2 wrote: post #16

> That didn't happen, concludes a study by a team of Stanford professors. "Large ethnoracial gaps in advanced math course-taking . . . did not change." Is there anything that will get these people to realize that maybe they are working with a hypothesis that is fundamentally flawed? It doesn't take a large amount of thinking to imagine what might have more predictive power in explaining what's going on here.

They answer to voters? If so, nothing will unless the voters think otherwise.

The voters got exactly what they asked for. Why do you think this is only happening in NYC, SF and Seattle?

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#364

Post by LeanderK »

macspoofing wrote: post #25
jschveibinz wrote: post #2

Argh this grinds my gears. It’s the education SYSTEM that is wrong. We are working with a 150 year old way of educating kids that does not apply to our culture today. Kids aren’t going to work on the farm or in a factory. They need the math!!! For courses like algebra, etc. kids need support at home from parents. When that support isn’t available (for whatever reason), don’t water down the content for goodness sake.…

What’s the fix? It’s not the system. If you have parents that are involved in education and engage in the kind of child-rearing, that is conducive to education - it doesn’t matter the kind of system you’re operating under (keep in mind, our bar for success is very low - we want kids that graduate high-school to be functionally literate with basic arithmetic and basic general knowledge). Put another way, if a child gr…

What's the fix? More support from the state of course.

It really is a task for the society compared to the individual, otherwise you will never ever ever have a fair system. Success in schools should not be so dependent on the parents. What about single parents? Do you just accept that it will be miserable for them to get their kids trough school? Parents without a lot of education will also have a problem of helping their kids. And what about those kids? Will you just leave them behind? It's not their fault they are born in the wrong family. This is just a take I would just really not agree with.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#365

Post by hardware2win »

Dalewyn wrote: post #358
hardware2win wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Practicing Math means practicing logic This is the most powerful tool for making your life easier

I was only ever taught to rote memorize equations and ways to manipulate numbers, I was never taught the hows and whys. Therefore, there was nothing logical about academical math and it didn't help me think logically about anything.

You were never tasked with solving e.g equations? E.g x + 4 = 13 - 2x?

Or using derivatives to find optimal material amount needed? Which would be tricky to memorize 100%

Like how could you even manage thru a lot of years and exams purely on memory?

You gotta understand somewhat this stuff.

Just because you dont know how to reinvent derivatives and integrals then it doesnt mean that there is no logic involved

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#366

Post by LeanderK »

pigsty wrote: post #106
macspoofing wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the fix? It’s not the system. If you have parents that are involved in education and engage in the kind of child-rearing, that is conducive to education - it doesn’t matter the kind of system you’re operating under (keep in mind, our bar for success is very low - we want kids that graduate high-school to be functionally literate with basic arithmetic and basic general knowledge). Put another way, if a child gr…

My parents were straight D/F students and never helped me with classes at all. I would’ve appreciated help that would’ve let me go farther, but that’s at a point well past algebra. Parents are part of the problem, but it seems like we’re just desperately trying to pin the responsibility on one specific person in the child’s life and put it out of their personal responsibility. That’s not the case. Some kids get every…

If you pin every responsibility to the parents you are just leaving unlucky kids behind. Having someone to blame is not helping kids succeed without much support from the parents. Of course someone will always succeed despite the odds, but the odds are still stacked agains the poor kid. It just entrenches wealth and slows down social mobility.

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#367

Post by [deleted] »

elzbardico wrote: post #88
g9yuayon wrote: post #24

> "Families with resources turn to fee-required online algebra 1 courses in eighth grade, outside the public school system, or enroll their kids in private schools," Isn't this obvious result? The Russian School of Mathematics could manage to teach 10-year old kids basic algebra. And there's AOPS, there's Think Academy, and slew of local tutoring schools who can teach kids relatively advanced maths. Let alone many pr…

Man, forget about Soviet Russia. I give you a more striking example: I was born in Brazil and started having algebra around this age, in a public school, where most of the kids, like me were either poor or at the best lower middle class. I don't even remember having a colleague that had at least one parent with a superior education.

[deleted]

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#368

Post by [deleted] »

istinetz wrote: post #299
testfoobar wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its like people are willfully ignoring the obvious: Black and Hispanic kids do the worst in math. Understanding why and correcting for the problems is a complex task. Making big proclamations about equity isn't going to do it. Family life matters to the growth and development of children. 64% of Black children live in single parent homes vs. 16% of Asian kids. How does this effect math results? Black children are mor…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#369

Post by replygirl »

bb010g wrote: post #346
istinetz wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

False & racist. Please see https://youtu.be/UBc7qBS1Ujo for an extended explanation of why this is a horrible position. We don't even have strong scientific evidence that Spearman's g factor is more than a statistical convenience.

Can you summarize this three-hour video?

Re: 'Algebra for none' fails in San Francisco

#370

Post by Dalewyn »

hardware2win wrote: post #365
Dalewyn wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was only ever taught to rote memorize equations and ways to manipulate numbers, I was never taught the hows and whys. Therefore, there was nothing logical about academical math and it didn't help me think logically about anything.

You were never tasked with solving e.g equations? E.g x + 4 = 13 - 2x? Or using derivatives to find optimal material amount needed? Which would be tricky to memorize 100% Like how could you even manage thru a lot of years and exams purely on memory? You gotta understand somewhat this stuff. Just because you dont know how to reinvent derivatives and integrals then it doesnt mean that there is no logic involved

>You were never tasked with solving e.g equations? E.g x + 4 = 13 - 2x?

Sure I was, but what does "x + 4 = 13 - 2x" actually mean?

That sheer lack of context is what I hate about academical math. WTF is the point of it all? The answer is there is no point, other than scoring adequately on tests so teachers can collect their paychecks and schools their funding.

>You gotta understand somewhat this stuff.

I was never taught to understand, I was only ever taught to do. That is meaningless and, as far as I've experienced, still irrelevant in my life to this very day.

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