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Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

economist.com

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Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#411

Post by rhaway84773 »

chrisco255 wrote: post #398
janalsncm wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not an accident the French are able to protest for workers’ rights while Americans mostly can’t. And it’s not because of differences between French and American psychology either. No, the reason is simple: unions. Most Americans aren’t in one, which makes collective organization nearly impossible. Businesses know this, and politicians know this, which is why some of them have made it a point to demonize and defa…

If it's true that unions are so valuable, why is it that in most industries in the U.S. workers are far better compensated? Take tech as one example of a non-unionized industry that has still secured for itself work-from-home, sometimes unlimited PTO, extensive maternity and paternity leave, sometimes five to six plus figures in bonus and stock compensation, etc plus pre-WFH the dankest office accomodations which reg…

I suspect you will find that most workers are better compensated outside the US than in the U.S.

Tech is probably an outlier. Service workers, which far outnumber tech workers, farmers, taxi drivers, etc are all better compensated in nearly every other European equivalent country than in the U.S.

As far as why tech workers are better compensated in the US? Well, for one thing, tech workers are not similarly compensated even within the US. Those working in the Bay Area, Boston, NYC are far better compensated than their counterparts in say the Midwest (the pandemic may have changed things, but looking at pre-pandemic figures is useful to gain an understanding of the wage disparity). When you factor in healthcare and other social services provided in Europe, West European tech workers are not disimilarly compensated from their Midwest counterparts.

The reality is that the outliers are these handful of American tech hubs which have outsized outcomes. Which brings us to what’s probably the real reasons for the US’s high economic output.

Immigration and college education, which is what these places have in common.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#412

Post by TMWNN »

HWR_14 wrote: post #373
nafey wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard (not verified) that every province of Canada trades more with USA than with any other province which I think is quite remarkable.

It's not really that remarkable. 98.6% of Canadas population lives in provinces that border the US. And provinces don't have much population. Outside Ontario, no province has more people than NYC. I would imagine more trade would happen with a land-bordering country with 90x the population than with a neighboring province. Or, to put it another way, I would not be shocked if every US state trades more with China than…

> Or, to put it another way, I would not be shocked if every US state trades more with China than it does with any other state.

No. No US state has trade with Canada at more than 15% of state GDP https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/6vism4/canadaus_tra...>, and Canada is a bigger trade partner for the US than China.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#413

Post by TMWNN »

nafey wrote: post #193
Tiktaalik wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your point about USA benefiting from a single big market is a strong one. Consider for contrast Canada, also a single language market, also geographically isolated, and sharing many of the inherent benefits of NA that America has. Canada though, not often considered a real economic dynamo in the same way as the USA. Well one big difference is that Canada is a relatively small population spread thin over an en…

I heard (not verified) that every province of Canada trades more with USA than with any other province which I think is quite remarkable.

>I heard (not verified) that every province of Canada trades more with USA than with any other province which I think is quite remarkable.

As of 2017, international trade was 65% of Canadian GDP, compared to 40% of GDP for interprovincial trade. https://www.imf.org/-/media/Files/Publications/WP/2019/WPIEA...>

Another way to think about this: https://np.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/6vism4/canadaus_trad...>

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#414

Post by _heimdall »

tdehnel wrote: post #316
_heimdall wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're describing so many things wrong with humans as a species, or at least modern humans. We shouldn't change things just because we can. We shouldn't assume that if we're able to extract natural resources its also our right to use them without question until they're completely depleted. Why should we assume that every invention, every technology, everything we call "progress" is actually advancing in a good direct…

This is a bad theory because it could apply to literally any time in the past or in the future. It’s infinitely variable and not falsifiable thus unscientific. Meanwhile, progress (aka people trying to make the world better) will continue whether you like it or not, bringing benefits to practically everyone forever. Pessimists may temporarily stifle progress, but the genie has been out of the bottle for the last 400…

I specifically ended my comment saying we need to be responsible with this power, not abandon it completely.

I said nothing of pessimism or pessimists, or that progress shouldn't be made. I strongly question how you could possibly know that anything we do with the intent of making the world better could possibly bring benefits to practically everyone forever.

Everything has side effects and more often then not we can't predict them. What we do today with the best of intentions can be a huge mistake that we only realize years, decades, or centuries later. That doesn't mean we should hide in a cave and do nothing, but it does mean we need to be extremely careful with where we lean in and change things and where we don't.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#415

Post by ericmay »

janalsncm wrote: post #372
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL, Americans are definitely NOT ambitious to a fault. The vast majority believe that a 9 to 5 is a great accomplishment worthy of applause. Have a job that affords you a roof over your head? Hero. Have a job where you need public assistance because your employer won't pay you enough to make ends meet? Villain. American rhetoric is ambitious. Americans in practice are just as lazy as everybody else. Americans will p…

It’s not an accident the French are able to protest for workers’ rights while Americans mostly can’t. And it’s not because of differences between French and American psychology either. No, the reason is simple: unions. Most Americans aren’t in one, which makes collective organization nearly impossible. Businesses know this, and politicians know this, which is why some of them have made it a point to demonize and defa…

It’s not because of unions or the 9-5 work schedule either. It’s because they can’t find parking.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#416

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

arethuza wrote: post #386
refurb wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not my experience working overseas in a few countries. There are certainly lazy Americans, but I’ve worked in multi-national offices where youd get fired in the US for the type of slacking i saw.

The US doesn't have particularly high GDP per hour worked: https://data.oecd.org/lprdty/gdp-per-hour-worked.htm Slightly above Sweden and slightly below Denmark and quite a bit less than Ireland.

Well, that's probably because companies make so much "intellectual property" in Ireland, which they then have to pay licensing fees to their Irish subsidiaries to use.

I am being a little sarcastic. This is a description of a standard tax-avoidance scheme.

My point, ultimately, is that I suspect Ireland's numbers are inflated by its status as a tax haven for multinationals.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#417

Post by roflyear »

irrational wrote: post #280
roflyear wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I guess the US has this problem too. I lived in a town where a significant portion of the population didn't speak English fluently

I think the downvotes are thinking you are joking about peoples’ english proficiency, while I assume you just mean there is a large Hispanic population in your town.

Ah. Yes correct. The majority of people in my town spoke spanish, and a significant percent did not speak english at all.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#418

Post by refurb »

epolanski wrote: post #407
refurb wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal impression (I'll admit in limited in scope) is that expectations are generally higher in the US. Not expectations around hours put in, but rather how quickly work gets done, quality of the work, etc. And that's not just management expectations of employees, but also employees expectations of other employees. If my coworkers in the US pulled what I saw in some parts of Asia, they'd stick out like sore thum…

I have not worked in America, but I have worked with Americans so this is hard for me to confirm, but I simply think that weaker work-related laws simply lead to people having on average more fear of losing job and thus there's more internal/social pressure. Anyway I did travel America though and lived 7 months in Ohio (went to OSU for exchange) and I don't know in which fields do you think where expectations are hig…

I'm speaking of professional white collar jobs. The kind of jobs where you can work independently, nobody is really keeping track of what you're doing and it's not hard to blow off work without causing concern.

I agree that service jobs I don't see much of a difference, but I assume in those jobs you can't really slack off without it being a problem really quick.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#419

Post by randomdata »

neffy wrote: post #395
randomdata wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't simply explained by the fact that immigration processes generally select for the fittest individuals? If you are not operating well it is going to be difficult to find the capacity to start the immigration process, and if you do make it that far you are likely to find out that the destination country doesn't want you. The same kind of phenomenon is seen in college graduates who love longer than non-graduates. T…

Not really. We also have to put this in the context of US life expectancy being significantly lower than comparable European countries. Britain for example has also had a very high immigration rate for a couple of centuries now, but no comparable difference is seen there. In the US money (and as proxy college education) is a gateway to a lot of things that influence health outcome, notably access to health treatment.…

> We also have to put this in the context of US life expectancy being significantly lower than comparable European countries.

Yes, this is due to drug-related deaths. The US loses 277 per million, while the UK only loses 53 per million.

That is a problem, one usually attributed to how the US cares for sick individuals with a more lackadaisy attitude towards prescribing certain addictive drugs. So, again, those who are unwell are in a disadvantaged position.

> See the infant mortality statistics.

The US does has an exceptionally high infant mortality rate, but mostly due to the US counting pre-term births differently to other countries. Canada, with universal healthcare, also has a mortality rate of 6 per 1,000 when using the same methodology although only reports 4 per 1,000 when using its standard methodology.

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