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Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

economist.com

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Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#291

Post by randomdata »

neffy wrote: post #45
marianatom wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lower life expectancy in US in general can be attributed to a more unhealthy diet and less walking, which is on the flip side due to US's economic success - affordance for more food and richer food, as well as affordance for car as transportation. Another attribution is the larger amount of immigrants, which as a segment has lower income level and thus lower life expectancy

You might want to think that, but unfortunately foreign born Americans (immigrants) actually have significantly longer life expectancies than American born do. Part of the reason for that is the much higher death rate in infants in the US, but it is still a very hard thing to explain away. I will also say as somebody who has lived in the US, US food is high calorie, but it is not better on any dimension, than what I…

Isn't simply explained by the fact that immigration processes generally select for the fittest individuals? If you are not operating well it is going to be difficult to find the capacity to start the immigration process, and if you do make it that far you are likely to find out that the destination country doesn't want you.

The same kind of phenomenon is seen in college graduates who love longer than non-graduates. There is no reason to think that attaining a college degree somehow cures what ails you. Rather, those who are not in tip top health don't have the capacity to make it all the way to graduation.

It is even likely why we see those with more money living longer. While it is often thought they live longer because they are more able to care for themselves, at the same time if you are not in perfect health it is much harder to make money. The same capacity determines qualities like what kind of job you can focus your attention on, and even something as simple as a few extra unpaid sick days each year can greatly reduce your net wealth potential over time.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#292

Post by dev_tty01 »

fnordpiglet wrote: post #263
CydeWeys wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still get better and prompter health care when you pay more money in pretty much every country.

In the US care, particularly specialist care, is both expensive and de facto rationed by lack of supply. Need a psychiatrist? No insurance accepted and a 3-6 month wait.

Hmm, not true in my experience. Family members have insurance paid psychiatric care and got their first appointments within a couple of weeks. I get that this is variable in different areas and insurance plans, but you stated no insurance and 3-6 months wait as general facts. That is incorrect.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#293

Post by fullsend »

PostOnce wrote: post #166

My 2 cents, some of the reasons America succeeds: (fact) America is a single market with a single language with basically a single set of regulations. Expansion is cheap in America. It makes a hell of a lot more sense to expand to another US city than it does to expand to Norway or New Zealand; but for a company in those countries, expansion is very expensive, expanding requires new laws, regulations, business entiti…

The consequences of failure in America are higher, that’s why we work so hard. You are a millionaire, or you are homeless. The in between is a hard and continuous struggle to get to the former and avoid becoming the latter.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#294

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

ETH_start wrote: post #221
mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that because those who aren't capable of taking care of themselves just... die?

Economists have studied this extensively. Less substantial government social safety nets lead to higher personal savings rates. Personal savings rates reach as high as 40% in countries without social democracy. This capital is managed by the individuals who will derive the entire benefit from it, so they are incentivized to manage it effectively, and not hand it over to inefficient union-run bureaucracies, which give…

In aggregate, I'm sure that's true, but there are all sorts in society, including people who have little capacity to earn money in the first place, let alone save it. That includes, for example, orphans, people with severe physical or mental disabilities, drug addicts, elderly people who lose their savings to fraud, and so on. Taking care of these people does create an economic burden on society that might come at the cost of some economic growth. But that's a choice, and for many people, a public social safety net that takes care of people in need is deemed worth the cost.

When you're falling out of a plane, it doesn't matter how strong your incentive to fly is. You aren't going to grow wings by incentive alone.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#295

Post by virissimo »

pbourke wrote: post #203
Tiktaalik wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your point about USA benefiting from a single big market is a strong one. Consider for contrast Canada, also a single language market, also geographically isolated, and sharing many of the inherent benefits of NA that America has. Canada though, not often considered a real economic dynamo in the same way as the USA. Well one big difference is that Canada is a relatively small population spread thin over an en…

Canada isn’t a single language market.

Almost the same fraction of people speak English at home in Canada as in the US.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#296

Post by goblinux »

csomar wrote: post #270
RestlessMind wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average French person has a life expectancy of 82. In Mississippi it’s 74.9, on par with Lithuania. That's a great bunch of cherries you picked there. If you are comparing Europe to the US, comparing France and Mississippi is disingenuous. Compare best-to-best or worst-to-worst [1][2]. The worst European countries are Azerbaijan (66.9), Moldova (70.2), Ukraine (71.2). The worst US states are W Virginia (74.8),…

You are shooting yourself in the foot if you are comparing a US state to say, eh, Moldova. The countries you named are only European by geography. They are on par or worse than North Africa. That being said, life expectancy is a very bad measure in my opinion. Americans consume a shit-ton of junk food.

Is there another way to be European than by geography?

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#297

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

elefanten wrote: post #283
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if it wouldn't exist without other's people efforts too, then what? And they may be people you don't know. They may be people who are dead. "paying with their own money" ... ack, not this simplistic nonsense again. People temporarily gain control over some measure of various economic resources. It's not their own money, beyond some temporary mutual agreement. Tomorrow, it may not be. Also, people pay for things r…

You’re mixing different levels of abstraction and equivocating across them. Sure, no human could produce anything modern on their own, without knowledge, training, support, materials, products, labor, etc. that comes from others. A child raised by wolves will never launch a new line of tennis shoes. At the same time, no complex effort comes to be without someone’s motivation and effort to take the risk, coordinate th…

I didn't say "everything comes from everyone".

I said "nothing comes one person".

Ergo, there is no "what you create", at least in the sense of being able to point at something and say "I did that, it is my creation".

Sure, we may use this a shorthand for situations where the proximal effort came from one person. But it's just a shorthand, and should not obscure the deeper truth.

I'm not discussing the general thrust of TFA or the overall comment thread, just another randian and their simplistic ideas about how the world works.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#299

Post by ThorsBane »

It’s a land of freedom, bravery, respect, kindness, love, law, and innovation. Of course great minds will abound and innovate faster in those places. America is amazing. The land of innovation. A land of huge scale and growing rapidly still. Just wait and see how much more growth ahead once they resume QE now that the money supply is tight enough again that inflation is under control.

Time for brand new mega cities and EMP-proof Grid 2.0 and massive infrastructure projects and more money supply for new business development efforts.

Re: Lessons from America’s astonishing economic record

#300

Post by jandrewrogers »

pcrh wrote: post #273
areyousure wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In case anyone is curious, as of 2021, 40 of the 50 US states have a higher Human development index than France. (France was chosen because as the OP and GP note, all 50 states have a higher average income than France.)

It's intriguing. GDP per capita comparisons between the US and Europe would suggest that almost all of Europe should have a lower standard of living than the US. However, this is not the experience of people who have lived in both places, principally because one needs a greater income in the US for the same standard of living compared to most of Europe. Perhaps this reflects over-valuation of the US dollar? As to the…

I think you may be conflating “standard of living” with “quality of life”, they are not the same thing. While I think quality of life is typically better in Europe by many metrics, there is no doubt that the standard of living in the US is commonly higher. They are not as tightly correlated as I think people assume.

EDIT: As an example, I split my time between Seattle and London. Cost of living is quite similar, but the median household income in Seattle is almost 3x London. That creates a large and very visible standard-of-living gap.

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