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Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

social.wildeboer.net

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Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#51

Post by illiarian »

4ad wrote: post #38
illiarian wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses: want to track users and collect their data with reckless abandon Businesses: implement rampant dark patterns to trick people into accepting tracking and data collection Businesses: flood the internet with inane, obnoxious and blatantly illegal cookie dialogs ... 4ad: I blame the EU (Hint: show me where GDPR says anything about cookies)

I blame the businesses for destroying the social fabric of the internet, and I simultaneously blame the EU for implementing pointless regulations that do not solve the first problem while making life miserable for its subjects.

Businesses: destroy the social fabric of the internet

Regulation, literally: do not collect people's data without their consent if you don't require that data for services you provide. Applies in equal measure to websites, banks, grocery stores, shit processing plants and nuclear power stations.

...

4ad: I still blame the EU, and it's a pointless regulation.

Edit: This comment really says it much better: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35567507

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#52

Post by flangola7 »

Guid_NewGuid wrote: post #48

No one likes these consent modals, not the EU, not the companies, not the end users. But they're good. They're making the negative externality visible. We had developed an ecosystem where as soon as you clicked on a webpage it would spaff your personal data to third party brokers and infest you with tracking across the entire internet. All driven by marketing and sales departments. All driven by a capitalist free mar…

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#53

Post by illiarian »

shmde wrote: post #40
illiarian wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The vast majority of people DO NOT care about cookies nor do they care about trackers. When presented with "Ask app to not track" on iOS, 96% users clicked "do not track" https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/96-of-us-users-opt-o...

Having a clear cut "CALL TO ACTION" dialogue option which presents one positive ( don't track me ) and one negative ( track me ) option. People choose the positive one. Cookies/tracking banners on website completely obfuscates the choice. Negative option ( track me ) is presented as the pearly gates to heaven and easy to click. Positive option ( don't track me ) is presented as these mathematical puzzle where you mus…

> Having a clear cut "CALL TO ACTION" dialogue option which presents one positive ( don't track me ) and one negative ( track me ) option.

That is literally the requirement by GDPR

> Cookies/tracking banners on website completely obfuscates the choice.

On purpose. In violation of GDPR.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#54

Post by goodluckchuck »

mschuetz wrote: post #17

The problem is that GDPR doesn't go far enough. It should completely prohibit third party tracking without the possibility to agree to it. Third party cookies/tracking simply should not exist.

The problem is they picked the wrong parties to be responsible. It’s not the websites that are doing the tracking. The websites are merely asking to save a cookie. It is the users’ own web browser that is storing the cookie and sending the cookie back to these websites. It’s the browsers that should be regulated if anybody but it’s a lot easier to regulate the little guy than to regulate Google and apple.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#55

Post by ssss11 »

illiarian wrote: post #8
senttoschool wrote: post #2

The vast majority of people DO NOT care about cookies nor do they care about trackers. However, there is a very real productivity loss with all the cookie prompts - both trying to implement them, getting around them, and the billions of people who have to click on them every single day. We've got to come up with a better solution.

>The vast majority of people DO NOT care about cookies nor do they care about trackers. When presented with "Ask app to not track" on iOS, 96% users clicked "do not track" https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/96-of-us-users-opt-o...

That “most users don’t care” line is tossed around by people all over the place and you righty point out that it isn’t true.

If my job relied on people giving up their data privacy I would probably continue telling everyone that line as well.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#56

Post by jeltz »

febeling wrote: post #45

This should have been solved technically, not politically. Why not set cookie rules in the browser settings, and handle at http standard level?

Because Google owns the largest browser. The problem could only be solved politically.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#57

Post by Circuitstorm513 »

olivierduval wrote: post #21
olivierduval wrote: post #11

Actually it's a bit more complex (but not much) than what is described: 1st party may need user consent when they will use personal datas for something that is not the intended service (legitimate use). For example, for a shopping cart: cookies are necessary for the service, so no problem. For fraud detection : no problem because it's a legitimate use. But if you start tracking with a user cookie what pages your user…

As a side note: cookie management is just A PART of RGPD, that is based on personal information. So RGPD implies to inform the user about the ways their information is used, how it can be accessed, modified, deleted and so...

It's GDPR as in General Data Protection Regulation.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#58

Post by germanier »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #42
olivierduval wrote: post #11

Actually it's a bit more complex (but not much) than what is described: 1st party may need user consent when they will use personal datas for something that is not the intended service (legitimate use). For example, for a shopping cart: cookies are necessary for the service, so no problem. For fraud detection : no problem because it's a legitimate use. But if you start tracking with a user cookie what pages your user…

> if you start tracking with a user cookie what pages your users are viewing (statistics collection), then... you need the user consent What about if you're Amazon and you want to show 'people who bought this also bought this' content? Then the tracking is necessary.

It's not enough that you "want to". You have to weigh your interest and that of the users against each other and would probably come to the conclusion that you can process that data for that purpose without consent if you aggregate it.

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#59

Post by progval »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #25
no_time wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We've got to come up with a better solution. I've got an easy one for you: stop embedding google analytics and others. You don't need a cookie banner when you only have operational ones or better yet, none at all.

Are you sure that out-of-the-box GA requires it? I thought the only info it recorded was anonymised.

According to the French data protection authority, "out-of-the-box" GA requires consent because they aren't anonymised: https://www.cnil.fr/en/google-analytics-and-data-transfers-h...

Re: Stop whining about “The EU Cookie Policy” and improve your ways

#60

Post by teekert »

I use Matomo on Wordpress. Turned of cookie based tracking. It means sometimes a revisting visitor can not be discriminated from a new one. I don't care. But, now he is saying, I can enable the cookie if I want, without needing the consent banner?

And what about a privacy page? Indeed it does make whipping up a blog or so more complex. Although I usually use Hugo of WP, keep them vanilla: Now cookies required for just viewing content.

Some kind of tool would be handy.

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