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Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

hetzner.com

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Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#291

Post by patrickthebold »

simplotek wrote: post #266
zackmorris wrote: post #209

I implemented a Virtual Private Cloud (VPC) on AWS with Elastic Container Service (ECS) using Terraform so that I could run Docker, and it ended up being about 2 orders of magnitude more expensive than Hetzner after all of the services were configured. For example, something as simple as AWS NAT Gateway costs $30 per month, and it can be challenging to get everything right if you don't use one. I haven't tried Heroku…

> So what's the point of all that? Seriously, one server with 16 cores and the memory bandwidth and storage speed of SSD drives should be able to serve many thousands of simultaneous requests and millions of users per month. I can't help but feel that the cloud infrastructure and microservice movement of the 2010s was.. a scam. You're just missing the whole point of why you need n>1 instances. You're focusing on what…

My pet theory is that VCs also hold a lot of Amazon stock or perhaps more reasonably: are friendly with people who own a lot of Amazon stock.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#292

Post by margorczynski »

simplotek wrote: post #276
015a wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't help but feel that the cloud infrastructure and microservice movement of the 2010s was.. a scam. I think the general consensus is that the most-root cause for why cloud infrastructure and microservice architectures matter is more People, less Technology. Its hard to hire highly experienced people, especially at the hundreds-to-thousands of engineers scale that many companies operate at. That, in isolation,…

> I think the general consensus is that the most-root cause for why cloud infrastructure and microservice architectures matter is more People, less Technology. Indeed the main selling point of microservices is People, more specifically how to set hard boundaries on responsibilities and accountability while ensuring independent decision-making. Another important selling point of microservices is flexibility. It's triv…

> set hard boundaries on responsibilities and accountability while ensuring independent decision-making

This isn't really true as most of the time the services interact heavily and need to be aligned with each other not to break and work properly.

And all what you're speaking of can be achieved by properly modularizing the code of a monolithic application. And microservices if you want them can be run on a single machine, you don't need "the cloud" or multiple computers in general to run a bunch of REST apps if your single instance is powerful enough.

And for most web apps it is with the currently available hardware.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#293

Post by mardifoufs »

andix wrote: post #227
zackmorris wrote: post #209

I implemented a Virtual Private Cloud (VPC) on AWS with Elastic Container Service (ECS) using Terraform so that I could run Docker, and it ended up being about 2 orders of magnitude more expensive than Hetzner after all of the services were configured. For example, something as simple as AWS NAT Gateway costs $30 per month, and it can be challenging to get everything right if you don't use one. I haven't tried Heroku…

If there were no microservices, a lot of companies would run their monoliths on a few VMs, with a small fraction of the cost ;)

If you ignore the costs from stuff like vmware, vcenter, windows server, etc... sure. But it's weird to forget that managing VMs was a huge expense even before the shift to the cloud. No one was just hosting a few dozens or a few hundreds VMs without very expensive management software.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#294

Post by MacsHeadroom »

patrickthebold wrote: post #291
simplotek wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what's the point of all that? Seriously, one server with 16 cores and the memory bandwidth and storage speed of SSD drives should be able to serve many thousands of simultaneous requests and millions of users per month. I can't help but feel that the cloud infrastructure and microservice movement of the 2010s was.. a scam. You're just missing the whole point of why you need n>1 instances. You're focusing on what…

My pet theory is that VCs also hold a lot of Amazon stock or perhaps more reasonably: are friendly with people who own a lot of Amazon stock.

It's less insidious than that. Engineers like using AWS at startups because it benefits their future careers at larger companies. Startups also get $100k-$500k in free AWS credits. So there's no short term downside.

Ultimately it's the CTO/Technical Founders fault that this goes on. Avoid cloud services like the plague unless you really actually need them. They will slow you down and eat your wallet in the long run.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#295

Post by mardifoufs »

bee_rider wrote: post #237
HideousKojima wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It ranges from $10 to $90 depending on the state (average is ~$30) and most states also have a discounted rate for people under the poverty line.

It is unacceptable to charge people any amount of money for a voting requirement.

Seems to work fine in Canada. We also pay for our IDs, at least here in quebec.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#296

Post by simplotek »

margorczynski wrote: post #292
simplotek wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the general consensus is that the most-root cause for why cloud infrastructure and microservice architectures matter is more People, less Technology. Indeed the main selling point of microservices is People, more specifically how to set hard boundaries on responsibilities and accountability while ensuring independent decision-making. Another important selling point of microservices is flexibility. It's triv…

> set hard boundaries on responsibilities and accountability while ensuring independent decision-making This isn't really true as most of the time the services interact heavily and need to be aligned with each other not to break and work properly. And all what you're speaking of can be achieved by properly modularizing the code of a monolithic application. And microservices if you want them can be run on a single mac…

> This isn't really true as most of the time the services interact heavily and need to be aligned with each other not to break and work properly.

I'm not sure you got the point. The need to provide interfaces and establish contracts and pledge SLAs is irrelevant and a non-issue. Naturally, your goal is to have a perfect uptime and never break interfaces, just like your goal when working on a monolith is to not add broken code that crashes the service.

The whole point of microservices is that you are entirely free to make any decision regarding the things you own, and your only constraint is the interfaces you provide and consume, and SLAs. From those interfaces inward, you are totally free to make any decision you think is best without having to bother about anyone else's opinions and technical choices and tastes and permissions. You can run one service behind your interface or hundreds. As long as your interfaces are up, you can do whatever you like. That greatly simplifies your problem domain.

> And all what you're speaking of can be achieved by properly modularizing the code of a monolithic application.

No, no you can't. Think about it for a second: can you pick your software stack? Can you pick what dependencies you adopt? Can you rewrite your code in any other language? Etc etc etc. Your hands are tied left and right.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#297

Post by simplotek »

glutamate wrote: post #279
simplotek wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what's the point of all that? Seriously, one server with 16 cores and the memory bandwidth and storage speed of SSD drives should be able to serve many thousands of simultaneous requests and millions of users per month. I can't help but feel that the cloud infrastructure and microservice movement of the 2010s was.. a scam. You're just missing the whole point of why you need n>1 instances. You're focusing on what…

A simple single node is often more reliable than a complex fault-tolerant setup. Fewer moving parts mean fewer broken pieces. Similar with security. A simple monolith is more secure than isolated front- and backend.

> A simple single node is often more reliable than a complex fault-tolerant setup.

...except when your single piece breaks and you get your whole service down. Then what?

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#299

Post by bee_rider »

mardifoufs wrote: post #295
bee_rider wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is unacceptable to charge people any amount of money for a voting requirement.

Seems to work fine in Canada. We also pay for our IDs, at least here in quebec.

Practically it works fine in many areas of the US as well—just, good areas that don’t want to put up hurdles for voters in the first place. But, give an extremism a means to disenfranchise anybody and they’ll go for it

Morally, even if it works out OK, it ought to bug you if you don’t have a cost-free way to vote.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#300

Post by bschwindHN »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #217
zackmorris wrote: post #209

I implemented a Virtual Private Cloud (VPC) on AWS with Elastic Container Service (ECS) using Terraform so that I could run Docker, and it ended up being about 2 orders of magnitude more expensive than Hetzner after all of the services were configured. For example, something as simple as AWS NAT Gateway costs $30 per month, and it can be challenging to get everything right if you don't use one. I haven't tried Heroku…

Isn’t this entire site run off a laptop in someone’s shed? And yet it’s got basically perfect uptime. Whereas the impenetrable cloud goes down every week and costs billions a year.

This site is also quite an easy service to run - it's all text, with very few customizations that affect the frontpage that everyone sees.
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