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Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

hetzner.com

201–210 of 342 posts

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#201
post #7
post #3

Could somebody walk me through why ARM based servers are so inexpensive compared to their x86 counterparts? Is performance much lower? 16 cores & 32gb of RAM for less than 25 euros seems like a bargain.

Power delivery and cooling are not cheap at datacenter levels.

Power is especially expensive in Europe right now. The war in Ukraine caused price increases between 300% and 1000%

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#202
post #148
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. In the USA the driver's licenses are ID cards and have addresses. Or if you don't have a license you can get a regular ID card, which has an address. The laws vary from state to state about how long you can go after you move before it gets updated. I'm not aware of a legal requirement to have one though, unless you're driving.

I thought the only way in the US to prove your address of residence is collecting your last few phone bills and bank statements. It was a huge LOL moment, when I first heard about that.

Yeah, it's really odd and circular. You can often present a lease agreement if you're renting an apartment or house. If you own, you can usually present a mortgage statement. If you own and don't have a mortgage (because you purchased with cash), you can use bank statement and/or phone statement. But what's funny is, how do you get the bank statement and/or phone statement? You usually have to show a lease agreement, mortgage statement, or some other proof you own the place you live. It's fairly difficult for someone coming from another country to get those things when they first arrive because all the documents they have are from another country and the entry-level employees that have to take them would have no idea what to do with them. My foreign friends and neighbors have stories about having to use a secured credit card (basically a debit card but the machines think it's a credit card) for 6-12 months before they could get a regular credit card. It's very confusing (and arbitrary and broken) if you're not on the easy path.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#203

Theres a perception that the ARM Altra per-thread performance is really bad. But according to my Minecraft benchmarks in Oracle's instances, its better than old Skylake cloud instances... by how much is hard to say since other tenants generate so much variation, but there are proper reviews of the whole SoC floating around out there.

I've benchmarked ARM systems vs other processors. On my workload, using Intel as a baseline. AMD under performs relative to standard benchmarks. ARM over performs relative to standard benchmarks. I have seen good performance from Ampere, particularly for the price. However, ARM architecture complicates my workflow significantly. I've found that they are not worth using it right now due to compatibility issues, easier…

I'm curious what distro you're using where there are missing packages. I've never run across missing distro packages on arm64 Debian (which I regularly use at work).

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#204

Theres a perception that the ARM Altra per-thread performance is really bad. But according to my Minecraft benchmarks in Oracle's instances, its better than old Skylake cloud instances... by how much is hard to say since other tenants generate so much variation, but there are proper reviews of the whole SoC floating around out there.

Minecraft is inherently single threaded. the success of running big servers is to run it on the fastest single core processor money can buy.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#205
post #196
post #76

I’ve never paid much attention to Hetzner but this interested me. Upon clicking the call to action in the announcement they blocked me with “Request on Hold - Suspicous Activity Detected”. I have no interest in subjecting myself to this treatment.

Do you get this indigent over every error message you see?

it’s almost like VPS hosting services have to be careful due to rampant fraud or something

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#206
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You prove you don't reside on the EU, and they don't bill you the VAT. (But I believe the KYC rules aren't only because of this.)

You got my hopes up but it seems I'm stuck paying UK VAT even though I don't think it's necessary any more. I've run into this with a few different German businesses, I don't know if I'm right or they are, but it seems like they don't _have_ to charge me VAT. Which is underlined by the huge "import VAT" bill I'm dumped with when I have physical goods delivered to me in the UK.

Are you using the computer for business? If so, you should be claiming VAT credits that neutralize VAT (since it's intended as a consumption tax). If they don't charge you VAT on behalf of the UK, the UK should be charging you the equivalent consumption tax by some other means to keep the consumption tax base neutral.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#207
post #182
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They probably suffer from a lot of sign ups with fake IDs and with criminal intent. So I get that they are rather strict. Another thing to consider: cloud providers are not very interested in individuals as customers. They usually want companies as customers, that also buy more than a 3$ vserver. A solution for this problem could be a sign-up fee (50 or 100$), to pay for an extended manual vetting of customers, that…

> Another thing to consider: cloud providers are not very interested in individuals as customers A key theme in the "cloud vs data center" story is that most public cloud providers (AWS, etc...) were really easy to sign up, requiring a CC and nothing else. Meanwhile, hardware vendors wouldn't even talk to you as an individual / small business.

Tried to sign up for gcloud a couple of months ago using my >12 year old google account. Long story short, while I technically managed to sign up, I never managed to get my GPU quotas increased to anything above 0, support is non-existent and contacting sales (which seems to be the 'official' way, but is only really intended for business customers?) never got a response...

Meanwhile, my small server (not Hetzner) has been running for many years without any issues, never had to send them anything after I signed up...

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#208
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very German thing. I’ve never seen ID cards from other countries that include an address of residence. Also the obligation to own an ID card is a very foreign concept in most other countries. I had that issue with German companies before, especially those who rarely deal with international customers. For example in Austria only a few people own an ID card (most people have a passport, but not everyone). So…

US does not have such cards, that is why they have issues with voter verification. Most countries have free IDs for citizens.

Yes we do have government provided ID cards. Your driver’s license (or if you don’t drive there’s a non-driver version that’s just a card). There is no mandate to get one or carry it (except for driving).

We have issues with voter registration because it’s been politicized. Poor people are disproportionately less likely to have ID cards (because it costs money, takes time, and most people get it to drive which is expensive), less likely to have it up to date. It’s disenfranchising to mandate IDs. Whether or not it’s a problem falls down party lines and your favorite statistician’s analysis. But that’s why it’s “an issue”.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#209
I implemented a Virtual Private Cloud (VPC) on AWS with Elastic Container Service (ECS) using Terraform so that I could run Docker, and it ended up being about 2 orders of magnitude more expensive than Hetzner after all of the services were configured. For example, something as simple as AWS NAT Gateway costs $30 per month, and it can be challenging to get everything right if you don't use one. I haven't tried Heroku, but expect similar prices and nearly as high of a configuration burden.

So what's the point of all that? Seriously, one server with 16 cores and the memory bandwidth and storage speed of SSD drives should be able to serve many thousands of simultaneous requests and millions of users per month. I can't help but feel that the cloud infrastructure and microservice movement of the 2010s was.. a scam.

I just need a place to run Docker, similar to what we had with Linode for running a shell 20 years ago. And don't tell me how to set it all up. Just give me a turnkey Terraform (or Ansible-inspired declarative configuration management tool) setup that has stuff like load balancing and some degree of more advanced features like denial of service protection out of the box. What we used to think of as managed hosting, but open source, and with sane defaults for running standard suites like Laravel, Rails, etc.

I have to assume that I'm just terribly out of it and something like this already exists. Otherwise I can't understand why someone doesn't just offer this and provide a way for us to pay them the millions of dollars we lose to spinning our wheels on cloud infrastructure with 1% utilization.

Re: Hetzner Introduces ARM64 Cloud Servers

#210
post #204

Theres a perception that the ARM Altra per-thread performance is really bad. But according to my Minecraft benchmarks in Oracle's instances, its better than old Skylake cloud instances... by how much is hard to say since other tenants generate so much variation, but there are proper reviews of the whole SoC floating around out there.

Minecraft is inherently single threaded. the success of running big servers is to run it on the fastest single core processor money can buy.

This wisdom is a bit outdated, especially on heavily modded servers.

Minecraft is limited by a single thread, but some stuff does run on other threads. In addition the JDK will do compilation and GC on other threads now, which is especially apparent if you run GraalVM like you should.

Minecraft wont scale to 16 cores. But if you buy a 2C/4T instance, you are going to get less performance than you would get on a wider one.

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