How To Get Started In Soldering • Hacker News Board

Re: How To Get Started In Soldering

#201

Post by K7PJP » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 10:19 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #113

bambax wrote: post #24

> just be careful not to overspend on your first iron. I first learned how to solder on an ultra-cheap hardware-store unit, and you should, too I beg to differ. I used to suck at soldering, and while I'm still no expert, swapping my €20 basic soldering iron for a serious Weller unit (starting at €150) changed everything. The Weller heats up almost instantly, goes up as high as you want, and stays at a constant temper…

Yes, "too cheap" is bad for newbies. You need something at least average or you'll struggle progressing. Same thing happened when I learned bass. I was unable to achieve anything after 2 years on a shovel. I then tried a squier special edition.. suddenly everything was getting out. Still a newb but the tool gave me direction on where to work to improve with a lot less effort. I was shocked.

> Same thing happened when I learned bass.

I didn't enjoy playing until I swapped out the strings on my Ibanez with some Rotosounds. The tonal change was significant.

Re: How To Get Started In Soldering

#202

Post by petsfed » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 10:29 PM UTC

sulam wrote: post #159

petsfed wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the $1400+ solder station I use at work. If I could have one at home, I totally would. Solder tweezers and a heated solder vacuum are very useful. But I am pretty handy with the $130 Hakko I got from adafruit back when I got one for home use. I soldered for a long time with a cheapy $40 Weller I got off of amazon, although I won't go back to it any time soon. Getting a brass sponge and tip tinner really made t…

What brand is your station at work?

It's a Weller.

I used to work at a place that had the Weller WXR3003N. $3360 of pure joy. The one I work with now is a Weller WX2021N, which Newark has for $1400.

The tool quality on either is phenomenal, but definitely not necessary for learning on.

Some control over temperature, peak temperature hot enough to melt lead-free solder are really all you need to learn with. I don't want to be a neo-luddite, but you end up learning a lot of tricks with a sub-par iron that I rarely have to use with the high-end tool, but I'm glad I know. For instance, its rare with the high-end tools that I have to glob a bunch of solder onto a joint during rework, but I had to do that all the time with the cheap tool. But now, if I just can't get a joint hot enough to melt, I know that that is an option.

Re: How To Get Started In Soldering

#203

Post by Baeocystin » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 10:43 PM UTC

moonchrome wrote: post #199

Baeocystin wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I learned this approach while working in the trades as a welder. You have consumables in stock and ready to go, and that includes extra grinders. Some tools you do take the time and effort to really take care of, of course, but a lot more than you might think are in the cattle not pet category of things.

I'm trying to learn welding/metal working so I can combine it with woodworking for furniture making. Meaning I know shit about tools compared to a professional. But I've bought two grinders and have an ancient cheap one from father in-law. My cheap Metabo is relatively quiet and smooth. Cheap Lidl one is loud and jerky. Ancient one I've just thrown away at how bad it was to use. Recently I had to grind some tubing fo…

My suggestions-

First, buy a separate handle that you like the feel of. They're dirt simple to swap around between tools. If you're in a large shop, make sure it stays in your lockbox overnight so that it doesn't grow feet.

Second, although honestly more important, make sure you are using the right wheel for the job, with the right pressure (lighter than almost everything thinks), and stay focused on using either the edge or the face, depending on type. This will keep things smoother, slow disc changes, and improve safety by reducing the risk of disc shatter. Detailed explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n0TSF1i5os&t=162s

Hope that helps.

[edit]- When it comes to welding, I strongly recommend learning stick first, even before MIG. It gives you much better practice learning how to control the puddle without spewing metal everywhere. Bonus points in that it is also very inexpensive, and the welds themselves are usually stronger than MIG. Only disadvantage is speed, but for the types of projects you mentioned, that's not much of an issue. This guy's channel is great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMtqDWUpJds

Re: How To Get Started In Soldering

#204

Post by HopenHeyHi » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 10:47 PM UTC

bambax wrote: post #24

> just be careful not to overspend on your first iron. I first learned how to solder on an ultra-cheap hardware-store unit, and you should, too I beg to differ. I used to suck at soldering, and while I'm still no expert, swapping my €20 basic soldering iron for a serious Weller unit (starting at €150) changed everything. The Weller heats up almost instantly, goes up as high as you want, and stays at a constant temper…

Look if I can't flash my own IronOS firmware unto my USB-C powered TS100 iron what is even the point? What am I, a farmer?

https://github.com/Ralim/IronOS

I didn't spend hours watching YouTube reviews comparing soldering irons for nothing. This is $70 well spent.

In case anybody thinks I am being sarcastic, I am actually not. Look into it, worth it.

Re: How To Get Started In Soldering

#205

Post by dale_glass » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 10:58 PM UTC

Kirby64 wrote: post #163

dale_glass wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hakko is also resting on their laurels. Hakko is what everyone recommends but I have no idea why. It's awful stuff with a design from the 80s. The UI is awful and inscrutable without the manual, the tech is long obsolete. Get a TS80 or something else that's actually modern -- it has excellent temperature control with a tightly integrated thermocouple like one of the expensive Hakkos (FX951), but costs less and actual…

Every company besides the chinese companies like Pine, Miniware have the same stratification of soldering equipment. Hakko 888 is cheap, and has old style carts. Weller has a similar offering. For the $300-range you get the 'proper' thermocouple-integrated tips like the FX951, and Weller likewise has a similar offering. JBC is a premium brand so they don't have low-end stuff, but their pricing isn't too far out of th…

What I mean is that the FX951 is a bad offering in modern times. I mean, a 7 segment display and looking up codes in a manual in 2023? Come on! A proper display is a tiny fraction of the cost of any Hakko product, and would be far more pleasant to use.

They're just resting on their laurels. There's cheaper and less known brands that make far better products because they take advantage of things like decent micro-controllers, displays and accelerometers that have existed for decades now.

Re: How To Get Started In Soldering

#206

Post by detaro » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 11:00 PM UTC

fsckboy wrote: post #195

nibbleshifter wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the rule supposedly came up with by Adam Savage - buy cheap tools, use em til you break em, then replace the ones you break with expensive, good tools. The idea of that rule is so new makers can work out what tools they actually are using, so they don't waste a shitload of money. In practice? Some tools are just worth spending the money on upfront, inferior tools will often lead to frustration and failure early o…

> In practice? Some tools are just worth spending the money on upfront, inferior tools will often lead to frustration and failure early on. no, you can't undermine the idea with this trick. For example (grabbing examples from other comments in this thread), while an expensive soldering iron might be much better than a cheap one, there is no way you know before you start whether you're going to be soldering a lot. I k…

There is a vast difference between "went out and geared up with the most expensive" and "spend ~$30 more to go from cheap crap to something baseline competent" (e.g. while the article author says "ultra-cheap" about his linked choice, it's actually more in that range). And nowadays its quite easy to figure out if that's the case for what you are planning to buy, as long as it is a somewhat mainstream topic. And then make a somewhat informed choice.

Irons are also not really getting used up, so if you truly follow the "replace if it breaks" rule you're potentially using crap a loooong time.

Re: How To Get Started In Soldering

#207

Post by krapht » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 11:03 PM UTC

fsckboy wrote: post #195

nibbleshifter wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its the rule supposedly came up with by Adam Savage - buy cheap tools, use em til you break em, then replace the ones you break with expensive, good tools. The idea of that rule is so new makers can work out what tools they actually are using, so they don't waste a shitload of money. In practice? Some tools are just worth spending the money on upfront, inferior tools will often lead to frustration and failure early o…

> In practice? Some tools are just worth spending the money on upfront, inferior tools will often lead to frustration and failure early on. no, you can't undermine the idea with this trick. For example (grabbing examples from other comments in this thread), while an expensive soldering iron might be much better than a cheap one, there is no way you know before you start whether you're going to be soldering a lot. I k…

I know so many people who get frustrated with hobby tools and then quit the hobby, when if they would've bought something decent to start off with, might've kept interest. The price differential is a lot less if you buy used, but quality tooling. This tooling is fully depreciated, and you can turn around and sell it for what you paid for it as long as it's still in working order.

To bring it around to programming, imagine trying to debug code in GEdit+Terminal vs having the latest and greatest Jetbrains IDE to help out (ignoring the fact that the community editions are actually pretty functional - let's time travel back 20 years when you had to pay for VS or Borland). One is way more frustrating than the other; one is way more likely to lose motivation.

Or soldering - avoid the cheapest harbor freight iron, and EBay a used Weller for $50+shipping. If you never solder again pass it on and you're out the shipping costs. Weller irons have been and always will be around $50~$60 used.

Re: How To Get Started In Soldering

#208

Post by LegitShady » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 11:09 PM UTC

crimsontech wrote: post #198

Baeocystin wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I learned this approach while working in the trades as a welder. You have consumables in stock and ready to go, and that includes extra grinders. Some tools you do take the time and effort to really take care of, of course, but a lot more than you might think are in the cattle not pet category of things.

Similar for professional kitchens. They use cheap pots, pans, knives, etc. then replace them when needed. No special Damascus steel knives and copper ply pans, just functional cost effective easy to replace stuff.

...all the professional kitchens I've seen use very nice professional kitchen equipment. They don't use damascus steel knives because that doesn't offer any advantage in function, but they aren't using cheap anything. Pots, pans, and knives work for a very long time and it doesn't make sense spending little to not get good ones. You can't get heavy guage stainless pots and pans for cheap, ply or no ply. The knives are the most used tool in food prep - they spend money on quality steel and good ergonomics so they dont have to work harder than they need to. In some places people bring their own knives.

Re: How To Get Started In Soldering

#209

Post by tonyarkles » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 11:57 PM UTC

leviathant wrote: post #58

bambax wrote: post #24

> just be careful not to overspend on your first iron. I first learned how to solder on an ultra-cheap hardware-store unit, and you should, too I beg to differ. I used to suck at soldering, and while I'm still no expert, swapping my €20 basic soldering iron for a serious Weller unit (starting at €150) changed everything. The Weller heats up almost instantly, goes up as high as you want, and stays at a constant temper…

Adding to the chorus - I spent $100 on a Hakko in my 30s and upon using it, immediately felt a sizable pang of regret at how much time I'd wasted with my $20 iron over the years. It felt like I must have been doing something wrong, but as soon as I had a decent iron, it's like all the videos I'd watched suddenly made sense.

I got lucky and bought a $100 Hakko in... maybe my 3rd year of EE? Early 20s? Like you say, my ability to solder improved dramatically overnight. The first time I went over to my (now) wife's house, I saw she had the same iron sitting on her dining room table for some cables she was fixing. Her and I still have the same pair of irons, they still work flawlessly. We've replaced tips a number of times, but I don't think either of us have ever had to replace the ceramic heater inside. I'm turning 40 this year.

Re: How To Get Started In Soldering

#210

Post by joshspankit » Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 11:58 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #113

bambax wrote: post #24

> just be careful not to overspend on your first iron. I first learned how to solder on an ultra-cheap hardware-store unit, and you should, too I beg to differ. I used to suck at soldering, and while I'm still no expert, swapping my €20 basic soldering iron for a serious Weller unit (starting at €150) changed everything. The Weller heats up almost instantly, goes up as high as you want, and stays at a constant temper…

Yes, "too cheap" is bad for newbies. You need something at least average or you'll struggle progressing. Same thing happened when I learned bass. I was unable to achieve anything after 2 years on a shovel. I then tried a squier special edition.. suddenly everything was getting out. Still a newb but the tool gave me direction on where to work to improve with a lot less effort. I was shocked.

I’ve been steering parents on this for years: for beginners (especially kids) the difference between a lifetime passion and another hobby on the pile is usually down to the quality of the instrument + the ability to have early wins (and it’s almost impossible to have early wins on a poorly-made instrument)