Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I don't see this kind of skepticism anymore. Everyone able to make a rational decision can see Russia are are the sole cause of this war. If Russia decided to leave Ukrainian territory tomorrow, the war would end tomorrow, and Ukrainians could get on with their lives in peace, and the stolen children hopefully get to go home. This is the same as rational people being able to see that the United States was wrong to…
IMO Mearsheimer's take has more explanatory power than "Everyone able to make a rational decision can see Russia are are the sole cause of this war.".
Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
291–300 of 381 posts
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#292Earlier quoted context omitted.
First, what's your source for this claim? Russia's propaganda arm is massive and working 24/7, so you can't go spouting off claims like this without telling us where you're getting your information. We need to be able to vet your source. Second, given that we're talking about Russia's justice system, I wouldn't really care if this were true! Being convicted of a crime in Russia isn't proof you did it—it's just proof…
https://memopzk.org/figurant/moskalyov-aleksej-vladimirovich... https://m.newstula.ru/fn_1307328.html The first one is from a widely known human rights advocacy group Memorial (which has tensions with the state). The second is a regional newspaper of sorts (hence state-controlled give or take).
The second source is completely state propaganda, no give or take. It doesn't even try to hide it, it's blatantly biased and leans fully into the idea that the accused is a mole planted by Western powers to discredit the government.
Neither is a great source for your claims, and the fact that you cite the second at all in this context makes your motives highly suspect.
English translation of the second source: https://newstula-ru.translate.goog/fn_1307328.html?_x_tr_sl=...
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#293Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems that support for Ukraine is one aspect that crosses demographics here in the UK, Left and Right, Young and Old, Leave and Remain, all fully oppose Russia and broadly support the efforts the UK and the west in general have done. It seems to be that a significant number of people in America seem to support the Russian narrative.
Selling Russia as the city on a hill to much of American public both on the right and on the left was tremendously successful info op.
Now their leftwing roots are mostly tankies and they have no real presence in US politics. The 20-something 'woke' crowd ain't listening to talking points from Chomsky.
Meanwhile we have pictures of small redheaded Russian ladies talking to the NRA and making sure that the NRA gets money to give to... guess who? There are members of Congress who openly support Q-anon, which is almost certainly a foreign intelligence operation.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#294As Russian who left the country on February 25th 2022 I can strongly recommend following substack for those who curios about economical and political situation inside the country: https://ironcurtain.substack.com/ Author is Sergey Aleksashenko who is economist and former government official. He now live in US and actively support Ukraine, but he have really neutral and realistic view on events.
I am yet to see any former kremlin official which public activity could not be classified as whitewashing.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#295Earlier quoted context omitted.
What really got me is that he seems to genuinely believe that the protests are driven from the West rather than that the local populace is fed up with him and wants him gone. It is as if he can't believe the evidence right in front of him. Belarus could have been economically roughly where Poland or Lithuania are today. Such a pity.
Yep, no doubt he somehow believes the West "stole" "his" people. Poisoned the sheep so to say, who now have to be mercilessly culled. And the country certainly could have been entirely another place. Yet he's ultimately our people's creation, who voted him in democratically 29 years ago on an authoritarian leaning, populist platform. Now we're paying for the ultimate sin of not giving a fuck.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#296Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure is terrible, just weird that russians themselves just take it and don't stand up.
Honestly, not too much people take it here as seriously as you guys somewhere over there. Most just get skeptical of such stories the older they get, and this is unfortunately a consequence of personal empirical evidence. You expect the truth but instead get a story. As you grow older the story starts to feel rough, doesn't add up to experience and at some point turns into a complete Orwellian bullshit. Stories get t…
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#297Earlier quoted context omitted.
It only depends on political will. Airtight isolation will be enough to solve Russia, let's say. On the level that "whoever has any diplomatic or trade relationship with Russia or does not accept the same policy, can't trade with anyone in the West", this policy will take days to "infect" entire world. Not being able to trade they will quickly descend to starvation, rampant disease and death. Then we can take refugee…
Doesn't work with North Korea, Venezuela or lots of other dictatorships around the world. Regime change is hard. Creating a functioning, not corrupt state in the aftermath is harder.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#298Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it not true though that we seem to get much more upset when Russia does things wrong then when we do things wrong? Like, if we were to look at the body count of our respective militaries over the last 20 years the US military is clearly dominant in that regard, yet the outrage over Russia seems disproportional to the harm...is there not a lot of truth here that people seem less enthusiastic to discuss in the aggre…
Nope. The US invaded Afghanistan with pretty much full international support and the authorisation of a UNSC resolution. The invasion of Iraq was far more murky, and nearly split the alliance between the US, UK, France, and Germany as a result. It also caused serious consequences to US power. But it wasn’t a reshaping of the world map, did not include annexation, and was rapidly regularised by UNSC resolutions becaus…
Have you any proof or at least evidence to substantiate this?
> The US invaded Afghanistan with pretty much full international support and the authorisation of a UNSC resolution.
Stated support - whether that was with zero aversion is unknown.
Also: while this is related to the specific questions I've asked, it is not answering those questions.
The questions I am asking are regarding the relative harm committed by our respective militaries, and whether our reactions and discussions are proportional to that harm.
> The invasion of Iraq was far more murky, and nearly split the alliance between the US, UK, France, and Germany as a result. It also caused serious consequences to US power. But it wasn’t a reshaping of the world map, did not include annexation, and was rapidly regularised by UNSC resolutions because of the US’s commitment to allowing an independent government to be formed as well as elections it would not control.
All very interesting, and important, but does not address the questions.
>Most importantly though, the US-led coalition had the faintest cover of legal plausible deniability in UNSC 1441, which could be read as having authorised force because of Iraq’s ongoing noncompliance. I disagree with that interpretation, but it has never been fully settled.
This is a matter of opinion. For some people, how many human beings were killed is more important than whether such actions have legal cover.
Do you remember a few years back when we were in the middle of a pandemic, and people dying was a super duper big deal? Do you remmber popular slogans like "Every life matters"? Isn't it interesting how flexible and dynamic humans are on their "bedrock, unequivocal, non-negotiable, just plain common sense" ethical axioms? Isn't it interesting how logically inconsistent and hypocritical people are, and how many people may die unnecessarily due to these strange cultural norms, that are enforced daily right here in "rational" forums like this?
> Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was explicitly an annexation by force, and lacked even the pretence of any attempted justification under international law.
Isn't it interesting how we always talk about this war from the prospect of "justification", rather than causality....and if someone was to inject the notion of causality into the conversation, a probabilistically predictable series of memetic "rebuttals/debunkings" would be likely to manifest?
Isn't it also funny how "international law" (or anything, really) is so important, when it serves our interests.
>Putin has also in speeches strongly implied that Ukraine is merely the first in his ambitions, that Russia had a ‘right’ to all the former frontier countries of both the USSR and the Russian Empire.
Surely. "Implied" is a very interesting word from a neuroscience/psychology/cultural perspective, because the way it is used suggests that the speaker is the only one involved in the implementation of "implied", when in actual fact each listener also plays a crucially important role in the implementation.
> Where the invasion of Iraq was a bending of international law and the post-WW2 consensus, Russia’s is a complete break of it...
Can you write out some pseudocode for isCompleteBreak() so I can better understand your intended meaning?
> and a statement that sovereignty of smaller countries as protected by international law doesn’t matter at all.
Who has committed this crime more in the last 20 years - Russia, or the US?
INB4: "whataboutism".
> That’s why it’s treated differently.
It is "treated differently" by millions of people. You do not have access to why each person treats it differently, thus you have imagined a reason....and due to living in a fantasy world being a (sometimes, and sometimes not) culturally acceptable and often encouraged behavior, no one finds it strange in the slightest. But if we were to change this topic from war to something like compilers and you made stuff up like this, it would no longer be culturally acceptable, you would get shredded in the comments.
Isn't this an interesting world we live in....if one is able to sustain a state of curiosity in one's mind, that is....unfortunately, the mind often seems to have a mind of its own...one whose behavior is subject to decades of social conditioning.
Gosh, I hope all of this is within the Overton Window of "things that are relevant to curious hackers", because it would be a shame if someone was to violate the Overton Window of what portions of reality are acceptable for discussion here and some people experienced a little psychological discomfort.
tl;dr: I asked specific questions, you did not even try to answer those questions.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#299Earlier quoted context omitted.
> People are oppressed into being hopeless. The way I look at it is, life is just way harder for most people than it is for people lucky enough to be born in the west, and it is difficult for westerners to comprehend. When you say oppressed, it implies an oppressor, in reality, to not have "oppression" takes centuries of bloodshed and tradition. The reason the country I'm moving from is a shithole is because we have…
I am not trying to downplay your personal struggle. There’s more to discuss here than a few posts allow. What I will say is that it’s hard to empathize with complaints or totally absolve people of responsibility for their state of oppression when as you say they don't want to pay the price to liberate themselves. If you can live happily in an oppressive regime then good for you, seriously. But when you start getting…
Who stopped selling weapons to Ukraine? Who lifted sanctions on Nordstream II? What NATO country were more favourable to Russia than US, and as a result, restructured their "green" energy policy to be a "little green men" energy policy where they completely tied their economy to fossil fuel supplied by Russia, while laughing like petulant schoolchildren when warned that this will have negative consequences?
Yeah, sure, the Russians are all cowards for not dying on mass in another revolution that is likely to go nowhere better than the last. I'm a coward for fleeing my shithole home country instead of staying there and killing my fellow citizens in a civil war that is inevitable.
But the blood of the Ukrainians are also on NATO's hands. It is especially on the hands of Germans, French, Americans and citizens. If they made better choices, Ukrainians would not have to die. But instead, NATO gave every signal to Russia that they will do nothing to stop its excursions into sovereign nations, while also making clear that want Ukraine in NATO, and that NATO is primarily an anti-Russian alliance that refuses to lift a single finger to keep Russia at bay.
Re: Russia is persecuting dissenters by taking away their children
#300Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's quite simple, actually. His main aim now is to survive. He has everything at stake, including his son. So he will try to brutally stifle any kind of dissent. On the other hand there is Putin whose army occupies his land, practically forever. They will make sure Belarus stays under Kremlin's influence. But for some strange reason he managed to refuse sending his own soldiers to Ukraine, so Putin's grip over him s…
Sending his soldiers in was no doubt in the original plan. Some units were staged at the border along the Russian troops but he found sense to pull the plug on it once he've seen Russian forward units being decimated.
It's a strange situation and it is very unstable. But for the duration of the war in Ukraine, ironically Lukashenko's position is now probably more solid than it was before.