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Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit

cnn.com

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Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit

#201

Post by Karunamon »

kevviiinn wrote: post #187
watwut wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read about this lawsuit a lot. No women did nothing wrong or stupid. The lawsuit outcome was still bad decision with bad reasoning which is why all those writeups remain unconvincing.

You could explain why you think the outcome is bad, just saying it was bad is rather unconvincing

Okay: the actual proximate cause of the burn was the heat of the liquid. As far as I know, they were not required to, nor did they, reduce the temperature. Nor should they have; to reduce the temperature of the coffee to a level low enough where she would not have received third-degree burns would require brewing and/or holding at a temperature low enough to negatively impact the quality.

That case is a study in how a sympathetic plaintiff affects the outcome.

Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit

#202

Post by saiya-jin »

jszymborski wrote: post #137
misslibby wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been awarded any money because somebody said something to me I didn't like. Yes words can have consequences. Let's take politics, some parties get elected based on their words, and then implement policies that are harmful to me. I still never got any kind of compensation for that kind of thing. How much money should ehticalsmacker be awarded from you, because you not thinking much of his comment hurt his f…

When you facetiously equate my comment with the harm perpetuated by someone actively racially discriminating against someone, do you expect me to take your argument in good faith? I'm not going to argue you with you.

How can you judge what is harmful to me? You personally are no general metric to all mankind. In fact, what you just wrote made me suicidal now since your words hurt me very badly and triggered massive childhood trauma which I barely survived but haven't told about to anybody due to shame. Your words hurt me that much. You can't question it, since you have no idea what is happening on my side. If you try to diminish the harm you have already done, you are causing me even more harm.

To compensate this harm, I am suing you for 3 billions $$ + legal fees, since I know you are not poor and come to HN. My lawyers will contact you.

And there you go, you just did exactly what you criticize on others and put yourself above somebody else. Hell, that's another trauma for me, now its 4 billions since I have panic attack now from your toxic posts.

Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit

#203

Post by [deleted] »

Karunamon wrote: post #201
kevviiinn wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could explain why you think the outcome is bad, just saying it was bad is rather unconvincing

Okay: the actual proximate cause of the burn was the heat of the liquid. As far as I know, they were not required to, nor did they, reduce the temperature. Nor should they have; to reduce the temperature of the coffee to a level low enough where she would not have received third-degree burns would require brewing and/or holding at a temperature low enough to negatively impact the quality. That case is a study in how…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit

#204

Post by johnwalkr »

thebooktocome wrote: post #185
onethought wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

88 degrees makes sense… you boil water to make coffee… Also you can feel via the cup how hot.

As cousin comment points out, these were the days of styrofoam cups. They are far more efficient heat insulators than today’s standard paper cups. Typically people do not drink coffee at boiling temperature, for the reason that it would burn their mouths and tongues if they did. Perhaps instead of blaming the victim, you might try to sympathize. Third degree burns to the genitals would be life-destroying.

Also crappy lids. The modern ones have a kind of button that you push and it doesn't really exert an upwards force on the lid. In those days, you had to peel part of the plastic up and away from the lid and it was easy to take the lid off by accident. I don't think that was a major part of the lawsuit, but practically anyone who was a teen or adult in North America at the same time had an experience of spilling McDonalds coffee or hot chocolate.

Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit

#205

Post by shadowgovt »

publicmenace wrote: post #72
shadowgovt wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A number intended to be punitive, yes. What is your framework for believing that number to be ridiculous? Do you know how such numbers are decided?

Yes. Punitive damages are not appropriate to begin with in this case, and certainly not that high.

A jury decided otherwise regarding the correctness of punitive damages.

Once that was decided, such damages don't scale by damage done; they scale by a figure that would inconvenience the company so as to discourage such flouting of their legally-mandated corporate responsibility in the future.

Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit

#206

Post by shadowgovt »

robertlagrant wrote: post #173
zozbot234 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that if I was a racialized person and saw scrawled swastikas in my place of employment, I might very reasonably start to be concerned about my actual safety. The law clearly says that the employer is liable for a hostile work environment. So a damage award in that range really doesn't seem that excessive.

I don't know any of the detail, but I don't see how this symbol interpreted as a threat of violence should receive a larger award than an actual death, which is what the person you're replying to was saying. Have I misunderstood?

Pay for death is complicated. Im many ways, it's an apples-to-oranges punishment: no amount of money can bring someone back from the dead, so one could argue that no amount of payment is appropriate (or inappropriate) for a death. Assuming we accept the premise "Sorry your loved one is irrevocably gone; here's a sack of cash" is fair:

It is, perhaps, the case that since the laws against workplace-caused deaths are older, their damage values have been pinned to lower pre-inflation numbers and the right response to "How can a hostile-work-environment suit cost the company more than a workplace death?" is to increase punitive payments for deaths.

Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit

#207

Post by shadowgovt »

ethicalsmacker wrote: post #84

[flagged]

It's less about the plaintiff being "offered" $15M (not the way I'd phrase "awarded in a lawsuit") and more about taking from Tesla an amount that would show up on their balance books and have to be explained to investors.

"So, tell us more about how you had to lose $15 million because you can't be bothered to keep your workplace from turning into a Klan-friendly zone? Any plans to prevent that in the future?"

Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit

#208

Post by misslibby »

bigbillheck wrote: post #191
misslibby wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk has claimed on Twitter that Tesla wasn't allowed to present new evidence, and that the fine would have been 0 with the new evidence. But he says the jury did the best with the given evidence and he respects their decision. I think there is more to the story than CNN reports, also, just because something has been made into a law, it isn't beyond discussion or criticism. There are many bad laws in existence.

Musk claims lots of things on Twitter that aren't true.

Such as?

Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit

#209

Post by misslibby »

eesmith wrote: post #199
misslibby wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk has claimed on Twitter that Tesla wasn't allowed to present new evidence, and that the fine would have been 0 with the new evidence. But he says the jury did the best with the given evidence and he respects their decision. I think there is more to the story than CNN reports, also, just because something has been made into a law, it isn't beyond discussion or criticism. There are many bad laws in existence.

What lousy lawyers Tesla must have. There were TWO jury trials, and the plaintiff was successful in BOTH of them. There are also many companies with illegally discriminatory workplace environments in existence. Just because "pedo guy" Musk claims something doesn't mean it's beyond criticism. There's always more than what's reported in the news. It's not like we're going to read the court transcripts. Please be specif…

Maybe his colleagues didn't like Diaz much. I don't approve of such slurs, on the other hand, I am in favor of free speech and people being in charge of their own companies.

Lousy lawyers - ianal, Musk said they were not allowed to present new evidence. No idea what was going on. Certainly there are judgements in the US legal system that seem wrong. It is not a perfect system.

Re: Tesla ordered to pay more than $3M to former worker in racism suit

#210

Post by johnwalkr »

smt88 wrote: post #129
notch898a wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like being discriminated against in this case is roughly worth the same as having a limb cutoff according to one law firm. I don't want to be presumptuous and say that feeling discrimination on the job is better than having your arm cut off though, maybe it does feel worse. https://www.losangelespersonalinjurylawyers.co/average-case-...

Your own link gives lots of examples where compensation was much greater than $3M depending on the severity of the injury. $8,000,000 Verdict: The plaintiff lost three fingers and underwent numerous surgeries to save her hand. A conveyor belt was detected to have a defect and caught her hand in it, leading to extremely debilitating damages. $150,000 Verdict: While he was operating machinery in a school, the plaintiff…

Tesla-related example: $13M for lower body injury.[1]

[1] https://laist.com/news/13-million-settlement-tesla-fremont-f...

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